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V 10 lane changing

Puddles

Member
Jun 2, 2017
728
848
Fresno, CA
Over the past year and many software updates, we have noticed the lane change/merge function vary widely between "spineless coward" and "raging crackhead." Some releases will just. not. go. until you manually hit the signal, and others will barge into the tiniest space with reckless disregard for the delta.

But V 10 has given it a whole new twist. Yesterday we came up behind a truck in the #2 lane, with heavy traffic to the left passing us. Regardless, on comes the turn signal, and the car starts over into a pretty tiny spot. It got about 2 ft into the lane, said gee! I did not make a good choice! and chickened out. Well, this is embarrassing, but we are beta testers and are willing to take it for the team. But it happened twice more, behind each of the next two cars! Even beta testers have their shame limits. Nobody wants to be the ones lurching and weaving their way down a crowded freeway at 70, repeatedly aborting dodgy merges.

Then, later, in a similar scenario except there was NO other traffic, again we got about 2 feet into the #1 lane, when the car said ABORT, ABORT! and headed back to where it came from. I have no idea what scared it off that time.

I think in addition to spineless coward and raging crackhead, we need to add another category: Cowardly Lion.

It's disappointing because the later releases of V 9 were getting very good at merging and lane changing. It seemed to predict good places to merge into, and accelerate smoothly into them. Well, 2 steps forward, 1 back, I suppose.
 

Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
1,476
1,862
Utah
Completely agree. Sometimes it pulls stuff off so well, I think "Dang, they've really made progress!" Then a few minutes later, I phantom brake so quick the driver's behind me honk and swerve.

We need to get big plaques, similar to the "STUDENT DRIVER" ones that say "BETA TESTING IN PROGRESS!"

Or maybe just the "Student Driver" ones would be appropriate...
 

CharleyBC

Active Member
Jun 28, 2019
1,403
1,590
Talent, OR
I haven't had a chance to use NOA since we got V10 Friday. I'm disappointed to read about the "Cowardly Lion" behavior. I've experienced that before, very much as you described, and hoped it would be better in the new software.

I find myself apologizing for the car. "Sorry. It got scared by that red Toyota." I'm glad at least it warns that it's about to make a lane change. When I don't like the circumstances, I'll cancel it. But yeah, there are those times when it gets partway into an easy, wide-open lane change, and abruptly bails out. This awakens my snoozing wife, who invariably asks, "was that you or the car?"

PS: @Puddles, that is one scary avatar!
 
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_jal_

Member
Dec 6, 2016
485
1,060
Chicago
yes, this is why I stopped using NoA around Chicago. I tried V10 yesterday and had the same thing. The other behavior I can't stand is when it puts the turn signal on when there's a car in my blind spot. It shows the red blind spot warning, so it knows there's a car there, but puts the signal on anyway to the panic of an observant driver overtaking me. Shouldn't it only put the turn signal on when it's ready to change lanes, for instance, when there is room to perform a lane change?
 

Puddles

Member
Jun 2, 2017
728
848
Fresno, CA
yes, this is why I stopped using NoA around Chicago. I tried V10 yesterday and had the same thing. The other behavior I can't stand is when it puts the turn signal on when there's a car in my blind spot. It shows the red blind spot warning, so it knows there's a car there, but puts the signal on anyway to the panic of an observant driver overtaking me. Shouldn't it only put the turn signal on when it's ready to change lanes, for instance, when there is room to perform a lane change?

This took a while to get used to for me also. But to my surprise, and much more often than I would have thought, people actually use that advance notice to make a gap so we can move in. Not always of course, but I'm trying to adopt the attitude that my signal means "I'd like to come over, if you don't mind, whenever will be fine," rather than how I see it often used, which is "Look out here I come!" I think this is the more healthy and friendly attitude, and given that the Tesla will always be obliged to signal for a respectful period before taking action anyway, we may as well get used to it.

This is also why it's vexing to have aborted lane changes. Someone probably had to make a minor adjustment in anticipation of my merge, and then to bail out after all just seems rude.
 

DirtyT3sla

Member
Apr 17, 2019
548
591
Holly
Over the past year and many software updates, we have noticed the lane change/merge function vary widely between "spineless coward" and "raging crackhead." Some releases will just. not. go. until you manually hit the signal, and others will barge into the tiniest space with reckless disregard for the delta.

But V 10 has given it a whole new twist. Yesterday we came up behind a truck in the #2 lane, with heavy traffic to the left passing us. Regardless, on comes the turn signal, and the car starts over into a pretty tiny spot. It got about 2 ft into the lane, said gee! I did not make a good choice! and chickened out. Well, this is embarrassing, but we are beta testers and are willing to take it for the team. But it happened twice more, behind each of the next two cars! Even beta testers have their shame limits. Nobody wants to be the ones lurching and weaving their way down a crowded freeway at 70, repeatedly aborting dodgy merges.

Then, later, in a similar scenario except there was NO other traffic, again we got about 2 feet into the #1 lane, when the car said ABORT, ABORT! and headed back to where it came from. I have no idea what scared it off that time.

I think in addition to spineless coward and raging crackhead, we need to add another category: Cowardly Lion.

It's disappointing because the later releases of V 9 were getting very good at merging and lane changing. It seemed to predict good places to merge into, and accelerate smoothly into them. Well, 2 steps forward, 1 back, I suppose.

I noticed today that the V10 update changed me from Average to MadMax setting and it made the experience terrible. Changing back to Average made everything better. Check that.
 

DopeGhoti

Active Member
Aug 28, 2019
1,232
1,392
Phoenix, AZ
I've only had one ABORT ABORT dodged lane change on V10, and it was clearly because of the dude barreling along in the lane I was about to enter at well over 90 MPH. That said, I am still having the car ask me for permission for lane changes, and it's working very well. I've even had the car slot nicely into relatively busy lanes and merging quite cleanly.
 

Nocturnal

Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
6,567
34,586
Deepening Crisis!
Then, later, in a similar scenario except there was NO other traffic, again we got about 2 feet into the #1 lane, when the car said ABORT, ABORT! and headed back to where it came from. I have no idea what scared it off that time.

Yes, this is happening to me way than it used to. Overall NAV is better, but for some reason it has chickened out on completely empty roads several times.
 
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ElectroScoot

Member
Aug 28, 2019
41
64
Nevada
V10 lane changing went from 5% ABORT ABORT swerving to about 75% for me. It's really terrible and makes me sad.
I figured out the reason-- it is misinterpreting the TYPE of highway lines (broken line vs. solid line) because of the Botts' Dots/buttons used here in the Southwest US.
Wondering if others with lane-change problems are also in the Cali/Nevada/Arizona/Utah area?
 

Puddles

Member
Jun 2, 2017
728
848
Fresno, CA
Truth told, I'd rather that the car abort a lane change and look like an idiot than merge into an Escalade and remove all doubt.

I see what you did there, and I like it.

But by the time it's aborting, you would have already gotten into all the trouble if it was there to find. The car is not saying "Oh *sugar*, there's something there I'd better not hit," it's saying "Naw, I've gone over, but now I'm going back."
 
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ulrichw

Member
Apr 1, 2016
141
247
SF Bay Area
Re: "Abort, Abort" - Is there any possibility that your cameras are dirty?

Purely anecdotally, I had similar behavior on a roadtrip last year. The car would regularly lose track of the lanes mid-merge and abort back to the original lane.

I eventually turned the autopilot off when it tried to run us off the road into the guardrail.

At the next rest-stop, I wiped off all of the cameras. No issues for the rest of the drive.

I always found it a little weird that there don't seem to be any camera diagnostics (at least I haven't ever received a warning of a camera lens in need of cleaning). Given the really crappy quality of the backup camera's picture when there's water on the lens, this disturbs me a little.
 
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cfichuck

Member
Mar 22, 2019
62
36
California
I've tested V10 on NoA several times with setting set to have me concur with the suggested lane change. That went so well I decided to take a chance on letting it change lanes without my consent. I've switched back. I like having the last word.
 

DopeGhoti

Active Member
Aug 28, 2019
1,232
1,392
Phoenix, AZ
Having seen how and when it suggests lane changes, I feel like if I were to use that mode, I would turn "auto-NoA" off because while the lane-changes themselves are pretty good, it does not handle merge lanes particularly well yet by itself. So many times after an on ramp it'll be "you need to move one lane left" and get really confused when the ramp and proper lanes merge. Once I'm on the highway though its seems (generally) pretty solid, though I wish there were a setting for "stop trying to pass when my next exit is at ___ miles/kilometers"- I prefer to settle into the lane I know I'll need, even if it's slower, because I'd rather not fight my way into a really congested lane later.
 

Needsdecaf

Active Member
Dec 16, 2018
1,268
1,793
The Woodlands, TX
yes, this is why I stopped using NoA around Chicago. I tried V10 yesterday and had the same thing. The other behavior I can't stand is when it puts the turn signal on when there's a car in my blind spot. It shows the red blind spot warning, so it knows there's a car there, but puts the signal on anyway to the panic of an observant driver overtaking me. Shouldn't it only put the turn signal on when it's ready to change lanes, for instance, when there is room to perform a lane change?

This. I hate this. Yes, it wants to move over, I get that. But clearly, it knows that it can't with a line of cars coming, it's got the red warning up. So either don't suggest the lane change until it's clear, or don't start signaling until it's clear. I hate looking like a dork driving down the road with my signal on when there is an entire line of traffic coming.
 

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