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  • The latest TMC Podcast (#14) is now available on YouTube and all major podcast networks. We covered FSD Beta's exciting v11 update, Enhanced Autopilot coming to the U.S. and Canada, and more!

V11 questions

DrDabbles

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
1,257
1,785
NH, US
push the stalk and set the speed to whatever you desire. If the rain’s that bad you should probably slow down and pull off so you can do that safely.

So, you don't seem to realize that when you push the button, you have to tap the screen to change the speed. I already said I push the button, and that my problem with tapping the screen is that it was already a bad design choice that was made worse in V11. You should probably try reading and paying closer attention to what you're reading, because you literally repeated back to me what I said I was already doing.

(I know, I know, physical buttons are hard for you)

Man, you really really need to re-read what I've said here because you're a million miles off having your own argument with yourself.
 

DrDabbles

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
1,257
1,785
NH, US
just drove home in a very light rain/mist. Had to turn off the auto function and just use the stalk button. Very annoying.

We agree. Very annoying.

One of my many disagree-ers (anti-fans) above brought up the “sudden downpour” issue.

Yes, imagine that light mist turns to heavy rain, or you're on the highway and suddenly you're on a wet road and road spray needs to be dealt with.

Again, if the auto wipers worked, that wouldn’t even matter.

Right, but they're garbage, so we ignore them.

I would argue that if you’re stopped at a light you have time to tap once or twice in the new interface to pull up the on/off/speed settings for the wipers.

I doubt anybody here would argue with this. If you're stopped, you can take your eyes off the road as long as you like.

I think, as you point out though, the trouble is that it’s not a one and done interaction as it should be.

Now we're getting somewhere!

Makes me long for the multipurpose stalk that would allow all settings w/o a screen to play with. Sad.

And there it is, you not only agree with me, but you went a full step further to full button controls rather than screen. Wow! You one-upped my concern here. Nice. I'm glad you've come around after driving through a light mist and wondering what it might be like if the conditions changed quickly.
 
Tesla committed to implementing auto wipers via image processing (no moisture sensor) before making it work adequately. Hopefully they'll succeed someday but meanwhile we wish for a control stalk and failing that, a touch screen UI that we can operate with minimal eyes off the road.

(I learned a trick from another thread to push the stalk wiper button with the hand that's also steering so the other hand is available to operate the short-lived wiper pop up panel.)

The car has a bunch of these features that often need manual overrides, like auto-profile selection. V11 just made those UI overrides worse.
 

Sporty

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 20, 2019
550
595
Seattle
Tesla committed to implementing auto wipers via image processing (no moisture sensor) before making it work adequately. Hopefully they'll succeed someday but meanwhile we wish for a control stalk and failing that, a touch screen UI that we can operate with minimal eyes off the road.

(I learned a trick from another thread to push the stalk wiper button with the hand that's also steering so the other hand is available to operate the short-lived wiper pop up panel.)

The car has a bunch of these features that often need manual overrides, like auto-profile selection. V11 just made those UI overrides worse.

It doesn’t seem like they’re trying to make it better.

Is it the same solution on the S, X and Y cars?
 
@Zhe Wiz
Apparently since my view isn’t the majority view, I’m not welcome here. Thats fine. I’ll “admire” you in silence. No one has explained why they feel a duplicate w/s wiper is necessary. Yet I’m being silenced when I ask for a valid explanation.

Glad you all are not designing the interface. Enjoy v11. I’ll go back to silence and you can all pat each other on the back.

I’ve tried to be helpful, read my posts. No more. You guys treat people horribly here. Tesla owners deserve some of the stereo types.

Anyone who disagrees gets belittled and attacked. You say that behavior isn’t welcome here, but it’s certainly prevalent and allowed.

Enjoy your club. I’ll enjoy the car.
Look how worked up you're getting yourself. This is a forum... Deal with it. People aren't always going to agree with you.
Good lord
 
Tesla committed to implementing auto wipers via image processing (no moisture sensor) before making it work adequately. Hopefully they'll succeed someday but meanwhile we wish for a control stalk and failing that, a touch screen UI that we can operate with minimal eyes off the road.

(I learned a trick from another thread to push the stalk wiper button with the hand that's also steering so the other hand is available to operate the short-lived wiper pop up panel.)

The car has a bunch of these features that often need manual overrides, like auto-profile selection. V11 just made those UI overrides worse.

I mentally separated the interface from the car not working the way it should. Moving profiles and w/swipes and heated seats are all fine interface decisions…if and only if the device they control work as they should.

That’s why I’m adamant that v11 is fine. It’s not the v11 changes that are the problem. It’s the other part of the equation. Things do not work as they should, putting more pressure on the interface to accommodate these issues.

I sat we shouldn’t be upset with the interface and pressure Tesla to change it or change it back, but rather we should be upset that the automation Tesla uses is unreliable and needs to be fixed.

I get that the two are intimately related. But when I argue in favor of v11’s changes, it’s done with the assumption that these automated items work or soon will. I’ve only had the car for (nearly) 7 months. I think my expectations that they will fix them haven’t been crushed yet. I’m still blissfully hopeful.

I think that’s where my frustration came from. Many people here were NOT separating the interface and the expectation that automation will work. They’re upset because the changes made to the interface make the fact that automation doesn’t work even more glaring.

That may be a subtle difference to some, but my logical brain wasn’t seeing it. (And yes, that pisses off my wife sometimes too).

Now that I see those things are being lumped together. I get it.

The w/s wiper change interface change is not a safety issue…IF automated wipers actually worked.

The heated seats interface change is not an issue…if automated heated seats actually work. (Except they keep getting turned to manual on my car, I think because I’m using the api to connect to my calendar and turn them on before trips? Not sure. But it’s annoying!)

Defrost? That seems a problem bo matter what. Maybe we’re spoiled not wanting to click twice, but that does seem like a thing that should be easily available while driving.

I still think they’re headed in the right direction with this. Everything needs to be customizable. I want different things always accessible in winter (defrost, heated seats) than in summer even. I think they’re going that way, I HOPE they’re going that way, but they’re not there yet.

And by the way, I don’t care if people agree with me or not. But I expect (wrong or right) some thoughtful reasons for the disagreement. That’s what I’m here for. I didn’t feel like I was getting that, until sporty woke me up and made me see what was going on. It was like one of those bad dreams where you’re screaming for help and no one can hear you.

I do owe DrDabbles an apology. I was rude to him and it was uncalled for. Sorry, Dr D. Seriously.
 
Please, please, please revert this "Update" to the previous version for at least the following safety issues:
- quick access to defrost and defog functions and quick access to seat heaters (without turning on the entire climate control system, which then creates a major multi-step process to turn off)
- dashcam button to once again indicate when a clip is being saved (without having to park the vehicle before being able to check what has been saved)

More issues to come, I'm sure, as I only had the update one day.

These issues need to be addressed for Tesla to retain the goodwill and loyalty of drivers and word-of-mouth [positive] advertising.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,314
4,761
Kihei, HI
Tesla committed to implementing auto wipers via image processing (no moisture sensor) before making it work adequately. Hopefully they'll succeed someday but meanwhile we wish for a control stalk and failing that, a touch screen UI that we can operate with minimal eyes off the road.

(I learned a trick from another thread to push the stalk wiper button with the hand that's also steering so the other hand is available to operate the short-lived wiper pop up panel.)

The car has a bunch of these features that often need manual overrides, like auto-profile selection. V11 just made those UI overrides worse.

Elon Musk wanted the car to "look like a space ship," whatever that was supposed to mean. So he insisted on eliminating manual controls for things that just work better with manual controls. All in the name of avoiding a "cluttered appearance." But it's a car, not a painting. Appearance should take second place to utility. Safety and ease of use should be the most important factors, and putting everything possible on the touch screen, even when it would work better on a manual control, is sacrificing function for form.

I love the car. But my biggest complaint has always been the absence of manual controls for things that just work better with manual controls.

... I [said] we shouldn’t be upset with the interface and pressure Tesla to change it or change it back, but rather we should be upset that the automation Tesla uses is unreliable and needs to be fixed.

I get that the two are intimately related. But when I argue in favor of v11’s changes, it’s done with the assumption that these automated items work or soon will. I’ve only had the car for (nearly) 7 months. I think my expectations that they will fix them haven’t been crushed yet. I’m still blissfully hopeful.

I think that’s where my frustration came from. Many people here were NOT separating the interface and the expectation that automation will work. ...

Those of us who have had our cars for several years (a bit over three years in my case) have seen that the automation does not get better. Nothing is perfect, and automation is proving to be a very thorny problem to solve. Elon painted himself into a corner by making certain design decisions before the software to support those decisions was fully developed. Tesla's inability to provide that software has left us without good controls.

Perfecting the automation would be the ideal solution. But it's not going to happen because nothing's perfect. Even improving the automation does not seem to be happening, though they are pouring a lot of software engineering effort into useless fluff like video games. There's no way now to install physical controls, and they've shown an unwillingness or, more likely, an inability to improve the automation. That's why we're asking for a return to a UI that, while inferior to manual controls, at least worked with minimal eyes off the road.
 
...the bigger question isn’t why are they needed at all… are the sensors that bad?

If they are, you’re complaining about the wrong thing. ...
The sensors are indeed bad. But in the absence of good sensors, what is needed are easily accessible and adjustable manual controls. So people are not 'complaining about the wrong thing' when the UI fails to deliver such controls.
 
You have a choice of if to install it. You accepted it without knowing what is in it first. I agree this update is not good in a lot of ways, and I personally have not accepted it (or any update for the last year). I don't mean to 'victim blame' here, but never accept an update from Tesla unless you know what is in it and if you will be happy with the changes. Let the YouTubers have it first and watch the previews there.
This is important. Tesla could take a cue from the folks at Apple and Steve Jobs. When you change the GUI, make the changes incremental, completely intuitive, and don't remove accessibility that was present before. Add, don't take away, and make the experience a seamless transition where everything works as before, but better.

Along with the many gripes people have noted here, there is one that really irks me: Backing out of my garage, I need to have the cameras displayed to ensure I don't run over a bike or a toy or something, and I want to be able to close the garage door as soon as I'm out (but still backing up). On v10 that was no problem, the Homelink icon appears on the top, you touch, door comes down, keep backing up. Now, I have to stop, click the top Homelink button, that opens up a menu that turns off the cameras, and now I'm presented with another menu showing the homelink selection button, select that button, close the menu and then reopen the cameras app. Only then can I continue backing up.

Something as mundane as leaving the garage now becomes a lengthy maneuver requiring multiple clicks, swipes, starting to back up, stopping, selecting dialogues, re-engaging the cameras, and then continuing to back up. There's no excuse, it's absolutely ridiculous.
 
Even improving the automation does not seem to be happening, though they are pouring a lot of software engineering effort into useless fluff like video games. There's no way now to install physical controls, and they've shown an unwillingness or, more likely, an inability to improve the automation.
I agree with you that there is a lot of work to be done, but to say that Tesla has not made any improvements in automation is just flat wrong. The changes are incremental, but they are very much there. Go drive on autopilot on a loaner Model S from 2015, and then tell me HW3.0 doesn't beat the pants out of that car in terms of automation.
 
Gah- anyway... With respects to voice control. I too am tired of the idea that voice controls solves everything. Clearly not when "show odometer" or "show tire pressure" doersn't work- I know you can use a different command to get to tire pressure if you say "show service"- not so intuitive. Why don't both commands work? It was overlooked. That's poor project management not to test this before wide release. The biggest problem is that people for a number of reasons cannot or do not want to use voice commands. What if my wife and kids are sleeping? What if I have no data for the first five minutes of my drive, like I do? What if I just don't want to interrupt a song or podcast because I don't remember where Elon hid my defroster? Waiting for a voice command to work in a downpour is a poor idea at best. Having it not understand me and trying again could be pretty costly. And yes, for reasons mentioned several different ways now, tapping the end of the stalk doesn't do an adequate job in a torrential downpour.
The voice control is terrible. It took me half a dozen tries to get it to recognize "turn off seat heater". Voice controls are not an adequate solution.
The car has a bunch of these features that often need manual overrides, like auto-profile selection. V11 just made those UI overrides worse.
I don't know why they can't work out the auto-profile selection. Mine works just enough of the time that I forget about it, then I'll be driving along and wonder why the seat isn't quite right (spouse and I are close to the same height so it's a minor adjustment) and notice their name in the corner. It was quick and easy to change it back to me.
Now I'll have to dig through the menus to get to the profile selection.
Plus it's often wrong if both our phones are in the car.
Just put the profile notification back!
Defrost? That seems a problem bo matter what. Maybe we’re spoiled not wanting to click twice, but that does seem like a thing that should be easily available while driving.
That's not "spoiled". Getting to defrost easily is a safety issue.

I have no history of hating change. I've been happy with all the other tesla updates (I've had it for two years). After my spouse's first drive he came in ranting about it and I was eager to try it myself, sure I wouldn't mind it at all. Nope. It's been a constant string of disappointments.
 
The sensors are indeed bad. But in the absence of good sensors, what is needed are easily accessible and adjustable manual controls. So people are not 'complaining about the wrong thing' when the UI fails to deliver such controls.

Maybe, maybe.l not. I have the luxury of not really having the muscle memory like y’all because I’m so new to it. But I just had a rain storm come through while I was on the road, and experienced that crappy sensor, but I just tapped the button and selected it on the screen without issue.

So I simply don’t get it. But again my perspective lacks historical context on past software configurations. But as a new user really starting out with the UI I guess I don’t see the problem. I’m sure they will rollout a few more manual buttons and switches like the S in future versions but not because they want to… only because customers still want them.

But like Harrison Ford said “if I asked what my customers wanted they would say faster horses” (paraphrasing)
 
Let’s put aside why America is the only country that still does not leverage the metric system…. But I have all my settings to miles. Why does it say “added n km” last night in the app? Can I not change this to miles?

F9B51ED7-F820-4F97-A4CE-6F2567ECA310.jpeg
 

Sporty

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 20, 2019
550
595
Seattle
I agree with you that there is a lot of work to be done, but to say that Tesla has not made any improvements in automation is just flat wrong. The changes are incremental, but they are very much there. Go drive on autopilot on a loaner Model S from 2015, and then tell me HW3.0 doesn't beat the pants out of that car in terms of automation.

Auto wipers. Auto headlight beams. Navigate (lane change decisions). All 3 have fundamental issues that have not been prioritized to get fixed.

I suppose the same-stack for driving might be considered working on the lane change issues.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,314
4,761
Kihei, HI
Something as mundane as leaving the garage now becomes a lengthy maneuver requiring multiple clicks, swipes, starting to back up, stopping, selecting dialogues, re-engaging the cameras, and then continuing to back up. There's no excuse, it's absolutely ridiculous.

I guess I'm lucky, in a way: I can't get Homelink to work with my garage door. I just keep the old-fashioned clicker clipped to the visor. Homelink worked for me in Spokane when I lived there. But I couldn't get it to work when I moved here. And I couldn't get it to work when my garage door opener went haywire and I had a new one installed. So I just reach up and press the clicker.

I agree with you that there is a lot of work to be done, but to say that Tesla has not made any improvements in automation is just flat wrong. The changes are incremental, but they are very much there. Go drive on autopilot on a loaner Model S from 2015, and then tell me HW3.0 doesn't beat the pants out of that car in terms of automation.

Sorry. I should have specified that I was talking about the "auto" selection for various settings and functions. EAP has indeed improved a lot since I first got it some 3+ years ago.
 
Well, on the legacy MS screen I have no issues. I like the upgrade. Yes seat heaters are now in the climate menu but that is not a big deal for me. I like the separation of the dual temp adjustment, and the fact that I can make Spotify a single menu option at the bottom. Love the subwoofer control too. For me, this UI is an improvement and looks better. FSD Beta 10.8 is a definite improvement too.
 
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