v11 software update SUCKS

[lensovet]

Remember on v10 when the phone was buried two clicks down?

don't see the issue with that? shouldn't really be interacting with it much.

 

[Sporty]

totally agree! the list of stupid changes is loooong!
-climate controls: why would you bury climate controls? seat heating and steering wheel heating. If I just want to turn on the seat now the whole climate system turns on?!?!?! wtf
-Navigation: took a long trip from Boston to OBX and took 4 wrong turns because of the nav. Before it would never happen. Many functions need to be tweaked. Do they test things with new people in new places before they release these updates. You need to allow more customization in the nav function.
-not sure if the cell signal works?
-not sure if the dash cam works?

I feel like I'm being held hostage with this update. A letter will come in the mail saying " we want one million $ , if you want your normal life back"

The dash cam thing is a pre-V11 problem. It can be silently not-working. I had an SSD where it was routinely writing 500(ish) byte files with no warning it wasn’t working. I found this out because I needed a recording (hit & run) and it had nothing.

I don’t expect it to be prefect but having on going problem, for such a feature, and not raising an alert of some sort is well … terrible. I wouldn’t call it that if it was only me but I searched around afterwords and others have had the same problem.

 

[rjpjnk]

Here is an interesting video showing the UI in a much different light, a very positive one. Not saying it invalidates any of the criticisms in this thread, but in my opinion it does at least offer an alternate viewpoint worth listening to. In my case, at least, I was not aware of what Tesla was trying to accomplish with some of the changes so it was informative.

The author claims the UI was the result of years of Tesla monitoring and analyzing users daily interactions with their UI's and determining which functions are used most frequently and making these easier to reach or, if possible, automatic so less attention would be needed for adjustments (i.e., safer). Of course this will be of little comfort if your personal most favorite button is now harder to access, but at least it shows there was a plan.

 

[OxBrew]

he author claims the UI was the result of years of Tesla monitoring and analyzing users daily interactions with their UI's and determining which functions are used most frequently and making these easier to reach or, if possible, automatic so less attention would be needed for adjustments

Design for the thick part of the bell curve is the opposite of good design.

Design for the edge cases, people who have the most trouble with it ( for a variety of reasons), and you automatically make it work for all the normal users.

The really genius designs do this, while also making truly brilliant solutions for everyone.

Sometimes extreme edge cases need special adaptation settings, but really, make it work for everyone, not just the sunny day SoCal owners (who have been over representing Tesla demographics for a decade).

And don't design for the thick part of the bell curve of weather conditions either. Work hard on the dumping rain, near white out snow, high wind, dark. Check the mid day clear and dry, but that's the easiest part.

Sheesh, this is not new strategy, it's been table stakes in UX and product design for decades.

This explains everything wrong with the new UX.

 

[Hank42]

i'm losing track of what's serious and what isn't, but it sounds like you should join tesla's development team with how dismissive you're being.

it's not about complexity. making the driver interact with the screen more frequently (more taps) and with higher precision (buttons in the middle of the screen where you can't brace your hand and tap them easily) absolutely, without question results in forcing the driver to take their eyes off the road and lose concentration for a longer period of time. we can debate how much longer that loss of concentration is and how dangerous this extra time is (among other things, it depends on the speed at which you're driving), but the objective fact that this update requires you to spend more time screwing around with the display instead of driving is not debatable. full stop. as for how dangerous it is, here's a quick study i could find with the most basic google search: The 2-second distraction that lasts longer than 2 seconds | Safety News Alert as expected, the drivers in the study also thought the distraction was no big deal.

now, i know exactly why people at tesla don't care about this, and it's because the entire UI is geared toward people using FSD. that's why the visualization is ginormous (even though it serves zero purpose for people who don't have FSD) and it's why they think it's fine to add extra taps to use commonly used controls (the fact that they are based in california where the weather is always mild doesn't help either). but that doesn't make it so, and being dismissive of it or constantly posting funny memes doesn't change that fact. it also is not helpful to those of us who don't have FSD and never will.

You just gave me an idea - one that Tesla could defiantly implement and leverage in the future.

My biggest gripe is the location and size of the "important" buttons. Some of them are now one or two clicks deep, which is frustrating.
The need of this seems to be rooted in the belief that there is limited screen real-estate and not wanting to put "permanent" buttons that cover the map or the speedo. They all have to exist in that one inch bar at the bottom, of which, there is a small target space. In the new UI you need to hunt on that 1 inch strip for the tiny icon to bring up the submenu.

I propose limited gesture control - rather than TOUCH the screen to bring up a submenu that slides up, how about a TOUCHLESS GESTURE (like a hand wave) in front of the screen that brings up a transparent modal with ALL the buttons needed that are ALWAYS in the same place, and can be MUCH LARGER because they are in a semi-transparent modal overlay.

I normally hate gesture controls, but in this instance, It's something I can do (i.e., wave my hand in front of the screen) without taking my eyes off the road. My peripheral vision will let me know that the modal is up, and, if the icons are big enough/shaped properly/colored properly, I could even use my peripheral vision to click on them to do something important - so long as they are always in the same place.
Someone mentioned muscle memory - this is a perfect way of encouraging that. Being a semi-transparent modal, you can still see the map/speedo/info updates underneath, and dismiss the modal with another gesture, or tap, without fear of tapping the map or anything else by mistake.

So, in effect, the above would give one-touch access to many, many more functions. Probably not something that can be retro's as there's no proximity sensor in any of the MCU's, but for future deployments, this should would solve a lot of complaints.

 

[finman100]

Just bring back v10. problem solved.

 

[Boza]

Wonder why the people who design aircraft UI never thought of using gestures…
Seriously, Ui design is 70+ year old field, there are tons of books and graduate programs. The knowledge and experts are out there. It is just a matter of recognizing and not dismissing existing knowledge.
The video is a joke. The author makes claims without any substantial facts behind them. Since the entertainment controls are more easily accessible than, according to the author, we use them more often than seat heaters and defroster/defoggers. Hint: the theater is not even available while driving. Is he telling us that Teslas are used more for entertainment than driving?!

 

[Hank42]

Wonder why the people who design aircraft UI never thought of using gestures…
Seriously, Ui design is 70+ year old field, there are tons of books and graduate programs. The knowledge and experts are out there. It is just a matter of recognizing and not dismissing existing knowledge.
The video is a joke. The author makes claims without any substantial facts behind them. Since the entertainment controls are more easily accessible than, according to the author, we use them more often than seat heaters and defroster/defoggers. Hint: the theater is not even available while driving. Is he telling us that Teslas are used more for entertainment than driving?!

I think gestures on a plane might be more prone to false input under demanding situations such as turbulence etc.. For a car, I think the margin for error is acceptable - bumpy roads might be the worst of it.

You just gave me an adjustment to my original gesture idea - I'm really big on that modal - and since existing Tesla's don't have proximity sensors, a simple click of the steering wheel button could activate the modal too. Again, the idea is to pop open a full display of buttons that one could see with peripheral vision(if need be), or direct vision but bigger, so time eyes are off road is lessened.

I support your assertation that the Tesla seems to be more for entertainment than driving. I don't like that trend. Driving FIRST, entertainment SECOND. Actually, I get my entertainment FROM driving, so... Maybe put a footnote on that

 

[Hank42]

I welcome that, but let's be honest, V10 is no bowl of cherries either. We've just had a lot of time to get used to it. While I won't go as far to say that we'll ever be happy with V11, we'll get used to it and bitch a little less. I think the direction Tesla is headed in with Entertainment above functionality is worrisome however, and lets not forget that started in V10.

 

[smogne41]

Here is an interesting video showing the UI in a much different light, a very positive one. Not saying it invalidates any of the criticisms in this thread, but in my opinion it does at least offer an alternate viewpoint worth listening to. In my case, at least, I was not aware of what Tesla was trying to accomplish with some of the changes so it was informative.

The author claims the UI was the result of years of Tesla monitoring and analyzing users daily interactions with their UI's and determining which functions are used most frequently and making these easier to reach or, if possible, automatic so less attention would be needed for adjustments (i.e., safer). Of course this will be of little comfort if your personal most favorite button is now harder to access, but at least it shows there was a plan.

This is utter nonsense. Safety critical controls are infrequently used by their very nature. Only a moron would design a UI for something like a car based on frequency of use of controls. That is completely the wrong ordering required. Is Tesla actually doing that? No idea. But they shouldn't be either way.

 

[Boza]

I think gestures on a plane might be more prone to false input under demanding situations such as turbulence etc.. For a car, I think the margin for error is acceptable - bumpy roads might be the worst of it.

Obviously, you have never been to Italy or had Italians in the car. I would be terrified to even think about enabling the gestures option…

 

[kavyboy]

which functions are used most frequently and making these easier

I eat only two or three times a day, so let's get rid of kitchens and restaurants completely and switch to once-daily nutrient paste distribution centers. That reduces complexity of a lesser-used activity.
I breathe all day, though, so irons lungs for everyone! So easy, I literally don't move a muscle now.

Whenever I read about telemetry being used for UI design, I die a little inside.

 

[Sporty]

Here is an interesting video showing the UI in a much different light, a very positive one. Not saying it invalidates any of the criticisms in this thread, but in my opinion it does at least offer an alternate viewpoint worth listening to. In my case, at least, I was not aware of what Tesla was trying to accomplish with some of the changes so it was informative.

The author claims the UI was the result of years of Tesla monitoring and analyzing users daily interactions with their UI's and determining which functions are used most frequently and making these easier to reach or, if possible, automatic so less attention would be needed for adjustments (i.e., safer). Of course this will be of little comfort if your personal most favorite button is now harder to access, but at least it shows there was a plan.

Thanks for the post. It would be a big deal if they really look at this for a year and this is what they came up with. There’s to much koolaid in those coolers. (And many of the automatic functions don’t really work well enough)

 

[Automobilist]

Design for the thick part of the bell curve is the opposite of good design.

Design for the edge cases, people who have the most trouble with it ( for a variety of reasons), and you automatically make it work for all the normal users.

The really genius designs do this, while also making truly brilliant solutions for everyone.

Sometimes extreme edge cases need special adaptation settings, but really, make it work for everyone, not just the sunny day SoCal owners (who have been over representing Tesla demographics for a decade).

And don't design for the thick part of the bell curve of weather conditions either. Work hard on the dumping rain, near white out snow, high wind, dark. Check the mid day clear and dry, but that's the easiest part.

Sheesh, this is not new strategy, it's been table stakes in UX and product design for decades.

This explains everything wrong with the new UX.

It's not about design as much as it's about optimization. All functions are still there, it's just about optimizing the UI for the "thick part of the curve", which makes a lot more sense.

It is implied throughout objections to v11 that somehow v10 was some optimal design that we should aspire to get back to. I think objectively speaking, if you look at v10, it was far from perfect and kind of a mess in many ways. There were a lot of interactions that were quirky or potentially unsafe while driving. The only difference is that we were all used to v10, with it's quirks, while v11 is something new.

One simple example is where the HomeLink button now pops up in v11. It is way more intuitive, less distracting, and easier to hit now in the lower left of the screen than where it was in the upper right. Getting distracted while pulling into a residential area (with people and kids running around) would not be a good thing, and so this is something that benefits pretty much all of the people all of the people using Tesla's with Homelink.

There are those who are complaining about the cards (specifically tire pressure and trip info) being gone, but assuming that change was needed to accomodate the new notification/quick control area (used by HomeLink), I would say it was worth it. I think it is pretty safe to assume there are a lot more "average users" using Homelink every day than users plotting their consumption numbers and pressure readings for every drive. The latter is frankly an edge case, and while there are clearly a significant (and apparently vocal) minority of people who do just that, I don't think that Tesla should be optimizing design for them at the expense of something that would benefit a much larger proportion of owners.

I think there's still a bit of refinement needed on v11 (something which v10 benefit from for over 2 years), but in my view V11 is a better overall starting point for the car UI than v10 was. Hopefully as the interface evolves it will also adapt to better address some of the less common use cases as well.

 

[LionelHutz]

It's not about design as much as it's about optimization. All functions are still there, it's just about optimizing the UI for the "thick part of the curve", which makes a lot more sense.

It is implied throughout objections to v11 that somehow v10 was some optimal design that we should aspire to get back to. I think objectively speaking, if you look at v10, it was far from perfect and kind of a mess in many ways. There were a lot of interactions that were quirky or potentially unsafe while driving. The only difference is that we were all used to v10, with it's quirks, while v11 is something new.

One simple example is where the HomeLink button now pops up in v11. It is way more intuitive, less distracting, and easier to hit now in the lower left of the screen than where it was in the upper right. Getting distracted while pulling into a residential area (with people and kids running around) would not be a good thing, and so this is something that benefits pretty much all of the people all of the people using Tesla's with Homelink.

There are those who are complaining about the cards (specifically tire pressure and trip info) being gone, but assuming that change was needed to accomodate the new notification/quick control area (used by HomeLink), I would say it was worth it. I think it is pretty safe to assume there are a lot more "average users" using Homelink every day than users plotting their consumption numbers and pressure readings for every drive. The latter is frankly an edge case, and while there are clearly a significant (and apparently vocal) minority of people who do just that, I don't think that Tesla should be optimizing design for them at the expense of something that would benefit a much larger proportion of owners.

I think there's still a bit of refinement needed on v11 (something which v10 benefit from for over 2 years), but in my view V11 is a better overall starting point for the car UI than v10 was. Hopefully as the interface evolves it will also adapt to better address some of the less common use cases as well.

It's not about design as much as it's about optimization. All functions are still there, it's just about optimizing the UI for the "thick part of the curve", which makes a lot more sense.

It is implied throughout objections to v11 that somehow v10 was some optimal design that we should aspire to get back to. I think objectively speaking, if you look at v10, it was far from perfect and kind of a mess in many ways. There were a lot of interactions that were quirky or potentially unsafe while driving. The only difference is that we were all used to v10, with it's quirks, while v11 is something new.

One simple example is where the HomeLink button now pops up in v11. It is way more intuitive, less distracting, and easier to hit now in the lower left of the screen than where it was in the upper right. Getting distracted while pulling into a residential area (with people and kids running around) would not be a good thing, and so this is something that benefits pretty much all of the people all of the people using Tesla's with Homelink.

There are those who are complaining about the cards (specifically tire pressure and trip info) being gone, but assuming that change was needed to accomodate the new notification/quick control area (used by HomeLink), I would say it was worth it. I think it is pretty safe to assume there are a lot more "average users" using Homelink every day than users plotting their consumption numbers and pressure readings for every drive. The latter is frankly an edge case, and while there are clearly a significant (and apparently vocal) minority of people who do just that, I don't think that Tesla should be optimizing design for them at the expense of something that would benefit a much larger proportion of owners.

I think there's still a bit of refinement needed on v11 (something which v10 benefit from for over 2 years), but in my view V11 is a better overall starting point for the car UI than v10 was. Hopefully as the interface evolves it will also adapt to better address some of the less common use cases as well.

According to Tesla, Homelink usage is so low that it shouldn’t be a built-in item and should only be a service center installed option (at least that’s the excuse). Meanwhile, I cannot think of a single thing that v11 made easier or more intuitive for me.

 

[smogne41]

It's not about design as much as it's about optimization. All functions are still there, it's just about optimizing the UI for the "thick part of the curve", which makes a lot more sense.

It is implied throughout objections to v11 that somehow v10 was some optimal design that we should aspire to get back to. I think objectively speaking, if you look at v10, it was far from perfect and kind of a mess in many ways. There were a lot of interactions that were quirky or potentially unsafe while driving. The only difference is that we were all used to v10, with it's quirks, while v11 is something new.

One simple example is where the HomeLink button now pops up in v11. It is way more intuitive, less distracting, and easier to hit now in the lower left of the screen than where it was in the upper right. Getting distracted while pulling into a residential area (with people and kids running around) would not be a good thing, and so this is something that benefits pretty much all of the people all of the people using Tesla's with Homelink.

There are those who are complaining about the cards (specifically tire pressure and trip info) being gone, but assuming that change was needed to accomodate the new notification/quick control area (used by HomeLink), I would say it was worth it. I think it is pretty safe to assume there are a lot more "average users" using Homelink every day than users plotting their consumption numbers and pressure readings for every drive. The latter is frankly an edge case, and while there are clearly a significant (and apparently vocal) minority of people who do just that, I don't think that Tesla should be optimizing design for them at the expense of something that would benefit a much larger proportion of owners.

I think there's still a bit of refinement needed on v11 (something which v10 benefit from for over 2 years), but in my view V11 is a better overall starting point for the car UI than v10 was. Hopefully as the interface evolves it will also adapt to better address some of the less common use cases as well.

9>10>11 is the correct ordering

 

[rjpjnk]

Whenever I read about telemetry being used for UI design, I die a little inside.

How about for FSD?

 

[kavyboy]

How about for FSD?

That's not UI design. It's also machine learning, which is a different thing, but still has it's issues. (I guess, I'm pretty ignorant actually.) But I *do* know that telemetry misses the "why" aspect of things. So you end up with boneheaded decisions. Analog: "We found that people rarely pull pins on grenades and when they do, it takes quite a tug. So we've replaced our pins with a simple easy-to-press button you can reach after removing..." Tesla's not even the worst.

 

[wdolson]

Here is an interesting video showing the UI in a much different light, a very positive one. Not saying it invalidates any of the criticisms in this thread, but in my opinion it does at least offer an alternate viewpoint worth listening to. In my case, at least, I was not aware of what Tesla was trying to accomplish with some of the changes so it was informative.

The author claims the UI was the result of years of Tesla monitoring and analyzing users daily interactions with their UI's and determining which functions are used most frequently and making these easier to reach or, if possible, automatic so less attention would be needed for adjustments (i.e., safer). Of course this will be of little comfort if your personal most favorite button is now harder to access, but at least it shows there was a plan.

He talks about putting often used controls in the lower left of the screen. Are they on the lower right on right hand drive cars? Also lower left is not most convenient for those of us with pre-2021 Model S or X. To reach the lower left I have to shift position. The only part of the screen I can reach without leaning forward is the upper left.

He claims a number of climate controls are little used. I use those a lot.

There is no auto seat heater on my car. Not being able to see the seat heater control, it can be left on the passenger side when nobody is in the seat, which is a waste of energy. With the old controls I could see at a glance if the passenger seat heater was on.

It looks like the setup for Model 3/Y is very different from S/X.

You just gave me an idea - one that Tesla could defiantly implement and leverage in the future.

My biggest gripe is the location and size of the "important" buttons. Some of them are now one or two clicks deep, which is frustrating.
The need of this seems to be rooted in the belief that there is limited screen real-estate and not wanting to put "permanent" buttons that cover the map or the speedo. They all have to exist in that one inch bar at the bottom, of which, there is a small target space. In the new UI you need to hunt on that 1 inch strip for the tiny icon to bring up the submenu.

I propose limited gesture control - rather than TOUCH the screen to bring up a submenu that slides up, how about a TOUCHLESS GESTURE (like a hand wave) in front of the screen that brings up a transparent modal with ALL the buttons needed that are ALWAYS in the same place, and can be MUCH LARGER because they are in a semi-transparent modal overlay.

I normally hate gesture controls, but in this instance, It's something I can do (i.e., wave my hand in front of the screen) without taking my eyes off the road. My peripheral vision will let me know that the modal is up, and, if the icons are big enough/shaped properly/colored properly, I could even use my peripheral vision to click on them to do something important - so long as they are always in the same place.
Someone mentioned muscle memory - this is a perfect way of encouraging that. Being a semi-transparent modal, you can still see the map/speedo/info updates underneath, and dismiss the modal with another gesture, or tap, without fear of tapping the map or anything else by mistake.

So, in effect, the above would give one-touch access to many, many more functions. Probably not something that can be retro's as there's no proximity sensor in any of the MCU's, but for future deployments, this should would solve a lot of complaints.

They could only implement this in new cars with some way of seeing gestures. The current fleet doesn't have the hardware.

They are having enough problem trying to support the different hardware across the fleet now. It would be a bad idea to add any new hardware that needs to be supported with another branch of the software right now. Fix the problems that exist.

According to Tesla, Homelink usage is so low that it shouldn’t be a built-in item and should only be a service center installed option (at least that’s the excuse). Meanwhile, I cannot think of a single thing that v11 made easier or more intuitive for me.

Really? I see people mention Homelink all the time here on the forum. Most people who park their car in a garage use it.

A strange thing has happened the last week, when I unplug the car and get ready to go the settings screen is up when I get in the car. It wasn't up when I shut down the car.

 

[WattsappMTL]

For those who are delaying the implementation of the Holiday Update because of its many negative changes - keep your eyes on the software status! I refused to install 2021.44.25, and it has since been superseded by 2021.44.30 which I also did not install. However, this morning the latest software downloaded to the vehicle without any action on my part. It's now "ready to install", so my only option is to schedule the installation manually and push the time back 23 hours each day when it's almost ready to go (and twice on Sundays to make up the extra hours). I recognize that those who have installed the update say you can get used to it, but I'm just frustrated that Tesla would make these changes with no apparent benefit to the majority of drivers.