No other car manufacturer will give you new software features for free either. New free features that keep my car feeling new is worth it over some minor complaints about the new UI.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
v11 software update SUCKS
- Thread starter Lynne Therriau
- Start date
-
- Tags
- software udpates
Apparently most don't seem to share your sentiment.
Attachments
Msjulie
Active Member
Indeed that was the promise.
I learned the hard way to avoid the software updates until the bug-fix followups had been released. QC in the software dept. seems rather so so to me, with new releases containing with new bugs for previously solid features. That might be a considered 'minor' complaint though not really, it's just shows lack of dedication to quality and a rush to deliver for updatings sake.
Now instead there's the new 'hotness' V11 which is universally not just resulting in minor complaints but instead fairly widespread dislike, quite vocally expressed in many forums, social media, etc.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
You’re smart. Studies show that talking on the phone is a significant distraction whether you’re on a hands-free device or not. Now we have an ill conceived interface that not only requires you to look down but increases that time you need to do so.
I drove our Subaru Forester last week and guess what - I was able to adjust the fan speed and turn on the defroster without even looking down at all!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you!
Last edited:
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Edit - I actually used to look forward to the software updates for the reasons you describe. In the past year that I’ve had my car, each update generally fixed a few things and made a few other things better, perhaps adding a feature or two. There were occasional changes that I didn’t care for but they were just that, changes, they weren’t clearly and objectively worse like pretty much all of V11 is.
Probably the worst part of V11 is it changed my view of the future of my car. Instead of looking forward to my car getting better I now fear It getting worse. That’s something I just realized and it’s an odd thing to say but I suspect many people are experiencing something similar.
TexasTezla
Member
You'll find more people voice complaints than voice satisfaction. That number will drop down as they become accustomed to the changes. That also is well known
Ever since the release of version 9 which actually did break my car and make it worse, and removed functions I had that never came back to this day. It has been a steady decline in the usefulness of the updates on their face.
It reminds me of rearranging a group of chairs in the hopes of coming up with more seats.
linux-works
Active Member
I also used to eagerly wait for updates and then sit in my car very early in the AM, drive to where wifi was at its best near my apartment and then get the update.
after xmas 2 years ago, I hesitated and glad I did. since then, nothing useful has been added (imho) and tons of things went backwards.
I have been rejecting updates the last 2 years, now. the car runs great and still has the classic UI (not the angled car view, etc).
and I fully realize that I am 'unable' to get the car serviced at tesla now, since they'll absolutely 100% update me and that will be the end of the Good UI Days(tm).
I have to say this: I'm SO GLAD I bought and owned a tesla for 2 years. I ate the dogfood and I know what its like to be a tesla customer. for all that that's worth. its market research, essentially (I work in the field).
to me, this is texbook example of how not to run a company when you peak. and what kind of ceo to EJECT when things get to their peak. keeping elon beyond 2 years ago was a huge mistake. nothing at all good came from tesla during the last 2 years (plaid? nah, dangerous stupid expensive car that still has $30k style body panels and paint). CT designed by homer simpson, himself. absurd.
for those that intend to stick with the brand: uhhh, "good luck". you'll need it. things aren't getting better from now on. you know that, deep down inside. we all do. and its sad but we've passed peak tesla.
after xmas 2 years ago, I hesitated and glad I did. since then, nothing useful has been added (imho) and tons of things went backwards.
I have been rejecting updates the last 2 years, now. the car runs great and still has the classic UI (not the angled car view, etc).
and I fully realize that I am 'unable' to get the car serviced at tesla now, since they'll absolutely 100% update me and that will be the end of the Good UI Days(tm).
I have to say this: I'm SO GLAD I bought and owned a tesla for 2 years. I ate the dogfood and I know what its like to be a tesla customer. for all that that's worth. its market research, essentially (I work in the field).
to me, this is texbook example of how not to run a company when you peak. and what kind of ceo to EJECT when things get to their peak. keeping elon beyond 2 years ago was a huge mistake. nothing at all good came from tesla during the last 2 years (plaid? nah, dangerous stupid expensive car that still has $30k style body panels and paint). CT designed by homer simpson, himself. absurd.
for those that intend to stick with the brand: uhhh, "good luck". you'll need it. things aren't getting better from now on. you know that, deep down inside. we all do. and its sad but we've passed peak tesla.
Remember when it was commonly accepted that OTA updates were a massive advantage for Tesla? At this point in time, a savvy automaker could actually exploit this fiasco by highlighting this - "With us, you won't have to worry about receiving any updates!"
I found another bit of acknowledgement from Tesla about their desire to push us into an autonomous future. This is why the interface does not and will not take into consideration, human preferences (as far as driving oriented ease of use). The direction is clear, but i don't believe the reason is this great concern for human safety. I think it's just a smokescreen for developing the biggest personal data sucking project since Amazon, Google, Facebook.
Listen to the beginning of this presentation. The message is clear that they do not want humans (meat computers) driving. We are clearly inferior and undesirable.
After you get past how scary this is, it IS interesting to observe our approaching reality that so many books and movies have warned about. He even quotes one of my all time favorite movies.
Agree with @linux-works. You need one CEO for a startup; totally different for a mature company and very, very few of them could transition from one to the other. In fact, the VC has tremendous respect for those who step down and move on to other areas where they could deploy their skills the best.
Elon was amazing at creating the vision, essentially, creating a whole new market segment, proving that EV are viable, etc. For that, he has my gratitude!
However, opening a market is very different from scaling a company. Scaling requires a totally different skill set and that is where most startups fail. @TexasTezla still drinks the cool aid and he is right that Teslas are selling like hot cakes. However, there are some troubling indicators - quality is going down (it was not great to begin with); service is abysmal; lack of focus (EV? FSD? Mass manufacturer? Truck or car? Van maybe?); ignoring customers; spatting with regulators; simply doing stupid stuff. Again, startup CEOs are so powerful at the early stage because they challenge everything and one or two things pan out. You cannot do that when you have a bigger company.
Elon clearly does not have the experience, state of mind, or maybe even desire to run a large company. He should have stepped down _before_ the ramp up and let someone else who have done similar thing before do it for Tesla. Elon would have been much more successful and beneficial for the society if he had fully re-deployed his talent in SpaceX and similar projects. I still maintain that Tesla is making a mistake bundling EV and FSD; spin-off FSD would be a great place for him to run.
Tesla shorters’ saw all of that but they did not factor in that nowadays it takes longer for those things to unfold because of the fan base phenomenon. See what happens with GameStop.
I know that we are getting off-topic but V11 is actually a symptom of a deeper, structural problem at Tesla. Once a critical mass of people realize that the events will unravel very, very quickly. It pains me to write that because I love the idea, the vision and the mission. But if I, as a lame person, can see those issue, I am sure that many people in other car manufacturers strategy departments see them as well.
Elon was amazing at creating the vision, essentially, creating a whole new market segment, proving that EV are viable, etc. For that, he has my gratitude!
However, opening a market is very different from scaling a company. Scaling requires a totally different skill set and that is where most startups fail. @TexasTezla still drinks the cool aid and he is right that Teslas are selling like hot cakes. However, there are some troubling indicators - quality is going down (it was not great to begin with); service is abysmal; lack of focus (EV? FSD? Mass manufacturer? Truck or car? Van maybe?); ignoring customers; spatting with regulators; simply doing stupid stuff. Again, startup CEOs are so powerful at the early stage because they challenge everything and one or two things pan out. You cannot do that when you have a bigger company.
Elon clearly does not have the experience, state of mind, or maybe even desire to run a large company. He should have stepped down _before_ the ramp up and let someone else who have done similar thing before do it for Tesla. Elon would have been much more successful and beneficial for the society if he had fully re-deployed his talent in SpaceX and similar projects. I still maintain that Tesla is making a mistake bundling EV and FSD; spin-off FSD would be a great place for him to run.
Tesla shorters’ saw all of that but they did not factor in that nowadays it takes longer for those things to unfold because of the fan base phenomenon. See what happens with GameStop.
I know that we are getting off-topic but V11 is actually a symptom of a deeper, structural problem at Tesla. Once a critical mass of people realize that the events will unravel very, very quickly. It pains me to write that because I love the idea, the vision and the mission. But if I, as a lame person, can see those issue, I am sure that many people in other car manufacturers strategy departments see them as well.
_Redshift_
Member
Absolutely nailed the assessment. It does not matter that Tesla is pursuing a driverless future. Currently they don’t have it. (Won’t, for at least 5-7 years)
Thus, taking away UI functionality that many deem affects safety was not needed at all. Having a driver friendly UI and pursuing a driverless future do not have to be one or the other. They can coexist.
Elon is too busy with other things to take this into consideration.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
They will never it, at least not in Minnesota. There are many times where I'm driving on roads based on where the trees are because it's completely obscured by snow. Cameras routinely get iced up. It get's cold enough that exhaust gases freeze on the pavement causing 'black ice,' etc. No driverless system will be able to accommodate things like this in the foreseeable future.
Exactly, their UI team outpaces the FSD team. They act as if the FSD is way more mature than it actually is.
I am questioning if FSD, in its current form, is even possible. If we look at the aircraft, where they have FSD for decades, the environment is much simpler to model and, due to the regulator, all of the manufacturers move at the same pace.
With cars we have a much more complex, almost chaotic, environment. You have pedestrians jumping on the road, debris (Tesla still does not know how to avoid those on the highway), potholes, bicycles, emergency vehicles, road closures … While there are rules on the road, there are a lot of informal agreements that, sometimes, go against the rules so that the traffic goes smoother. For example, how many times at a 4 way stop you just look at the other driver and silently agree who would go first? In a lot of states the rules is that the person on the left should give way; in reality, whoever comes first goes first. How many times you look at the person on the sidewalk for visual cues if they intent to cross the street? There is so much judgement and human interaction that I doubt they could model it in AI anytime soon. They cannot fully solve the highway yet (fantom braking anyone?), let alone city driving.
Had it been like airplanes and the cars could “talk” to each other that would have been a much easier and possible undertaking. While we have 2022 Tesla and 1964 Mustang on the road the FSD remains a driver’s aid, nothing more.
And I am not even touching the legal and moral aspect of FSD. Even if they solve the technical issues I am not sure if I want an FSD car.
I am questioning if FSD, in its current form, is even possible. If we look at the aircraft, where they have FSD for decades, the environment is much simpler to model and, due to the regulator, all of the manufacturers move at the same pace.
With cars we have a much more complex, almost chaotic, environment. You have pedestrians jumping on the road, debris (Tesla still does not know how to avoid those on the highway), potholes, bicycles, emergency vehicles, road closures … While there are rules on the road, there are a lot of informal agreements that, sometimes, go against the rules so that the traffic goes smoother. For example, how many times at a 4 way stop you just look at the other driver and silently agree who would go first? In a lot of states the rules is that the person on the left should give way; in reality, whoever comes first goes first. How many times you look at the person on the sidewalk for visual cues if they intent to cross the street? There is so much judgement and human interaction that I doubt they could model it in AI anytime soon. They cannot fully solve the highway yet (fantom braking anyone?), let alone city driving.
Had it been like airplanes and the cars could “talk” to each other that would have been a much easier and possible undertaking. While we have 2022 Tesla and 1964 Mustang on the road the FSD remains a driver’s aid, nothing more.
And I am not even touching the legal and moral aspect of FSD. Even if they solve the technical issues I am not sure if I want an FSD car.
Interestingly, I used the FSD as driving aid last two winters and I absolutely loved it! There were occasions where I could not see the road - thick fog, complete whiteout, covered signs and marking - and this thing was showing even the lane markings. I guess they are reflective for the LiDAR.
I loved to be able to “see” all that but to let it drive - no way in hell! Just like a teenager - the moment I tried it it went up to the speed limit
smogne41
Active Member
Exactly. It is fundamentally true that machine learning and current AI techniques have never been used to successfully solve a problem like this. Will it work? Nobody knows. The fanbois will say 'of course it will' and we are all secret oil company shills for saying otherwise. But they are wrong. I don't know if it will work. They can't know if it will work. Tesla does (or should) not know if it will work. It might work, but just as likely it will not.
There is also the reality of any software development that the first 90% of the 'finished' product takes about 10% of the development time. Software development progress does not accelerate the longer you work on it. It slows down. Hard.
But the possible future existence of real FSD is a horrible excuse for bad design decisions today.
I’ve been so itching to want to talk about the Teslabot with regard to announcements that are know to be way off the base. Perhaps it fits with “lack of focus”. It also goes to “doesn’t lie” narrative (if you believe it, it’s not a lie). IMO Elon didn’t think they had enough awesome presentation materials so they just made up some vapor ware.
Similar threads
