v11 software update SUCKS

[lensovet]

I have read that the Apple Watch was very far in the development cycle when Jobs died. It was the last project he piloted. Maybe AirPods are an advancement, but they just seem like a wireless form of the old wired ear buds. I'm not familiar with the Pro Display or HomePod, but the M1 is an evolution of the processor they developed for the iPod many years ago.

Not to get too off thread here, but I have no idea where your info is coming from.

The delta between the watch being released and Steve's passing was nearly 4 years. no product that's "very far in the development cycle" takes another 4 years to release, unless it's a product made by Elon and "very far in the development cycle" is something he says that is in fact completely divorced from reality (see FSD).

To compare AirPods to wired buds is laughable. The only thing they have in common is the audio driver.

If you're not familiar with the pro display and HomePod, you are either living under a rock or should just stop talking about Apple.

The iPod CPUs have almost nothing to do with the new M1 chips. They are an evolution of the A4 chips originally used in the iPhone, but if it's so obvious and incremental, why is no other company having success with such an iterative model? Intel's latest chips can barely eek out the same perf as M1…while consuming 2-3x the amount of power. Qualcomm has been making mobile chips for decades yet I don't see them releasing laptop CPUs.

with those facts out of the way, I guess we can come back to the thing that triggered your response:

Tesla has a ton of technology and patents that could keep them going for a long time. However, if they do not fix the quality at scale, support, and general attitude toward customers they will become just a shell of what they are now. The history is full of examples where a brilliant technology company fails because they ignored the customer.

I don't know that this is true. People (including bears) have been saying this for years. Remember panel gaps? I do, and that was over 3 years ago. The only thing that has happened since is Tesla has scaled their deliveries and the stock is up 1300%.

the sad reality is that people in society in general have deprioritized quality and longevity in pretty much everything they buy and use. people talk about how fast fashion is destroying the environment, but this applies to everything. people just want something quick and cheap and they don't care how long it lasts. no one is interested in OS releases full of bug fixes, they want new features and emoji. that's the reality. I'm sure Tesla has stats on what features get used and how much, and the reason they keep adding games is because people play them. I personally don't know anyone that does, but I can't imagine them spending resources and licensing money on games that no one uses.

 

[Boza]

There will be competition. That changes a lot.

 

[lensovet]

There will be competition. That changes a lot.

People said that about "iPhone killers" for ages. Yet no other phone comes remotely close in terms of sales.

Same thing with Tesla. Legacy auto is supposed to come out with something that blows Tesla out of the water, yet it never actually happens.

 

[Boza]

If by “sales” you mean revenue - then you are correct. If you mean units sold - Apple just surpassed Samsung in Q3 last year. Before that Samsung was the leader in units sold.

Anyway, I am not saying that Tesla will disappear or anything like that. The availability of choice will force them to get some of their act together. Now, it is a Wild, Wild West.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Anyway, I am not saying that Tesla will disappear or anything like that. The availability of choice will force them to get some of their act together. Now, it is a Wild, Wild West.

It really depends if Tesla's competitors can eventually produce a better product. From what I've seen so far, the competing cars are either about the same in capabilities or even a bit worse.

 

[sleepydoc]

People said that about "iPhone killers" for ages. Yet no other phone comes remotely close in terms of sales.

Same thing with Tesla. Legacy auto is supposed to come out with something that blows Tesla out of the water, yet it never actually happens.

It took time, and there was never a single ‘iPhone killer,’ but competition did come. In terms of individual phone models, Apple has the lead, but if you compare iOS vs Android it's a different story. Ultimately, the competition was good - There were useful features that android developed that made their way into iOS and I'm convinced that the competition spurred Apple to improve iOS in ways they would not have otherwise done.

It really depends if Tesla's competitors can eventually produce a better product. From what I've seen so far, the competing cars are either about the same in capabilities or even a bit worse.

Even if they have a comparable product it will be enough. Many people don't necessarily want FSD, they just want to go electric, and many people have never watched Space Balls or have any interest in games or fart noises. For them, the interface will matter and having an utter mess like V11 will be a turnoff.

 

[_Redshift_]

People said that about "iPhone killers" for ages. Yet no other phone comes remotely close in terms of sales.

Same thing with Tesla. Legacy auto is supposed to come out with something that blows Tesla out of the water, yet it never actually happens.

Never say never. Many companies’ seeds of failure are sown when they are doing well. Famous saying.

 

[wdolson]

with those facts out of the way, I guess we can come back to the thing that triggered your response:


I don't know that this is true. People (including bears) have been saying this for years. Remember panel gaps? I do, and that was over 3 years ago. The only thing that has happened since is Tesla has scaled their deliveries and the stock is up 1300%.

the sad reality is that people in society in general have deprioritized quality and longevity in pretty much everything they buy and use. people talk about how fast fashion is destroying the environment, but this applies to everything. people just want something quick and cheap and they don't care how long it lasts. no one is interested in OS releases full of bug fixes, they want new features and emoji. that's the reality. I'm sure Tesla has stats on what features get used and how much, and the reason they keep adding games is because people play them. I personally don't know anyone that does, but I can't imagine them spending resources and licensing money on games that no one uses.

The second quote is not mine. I responded to that. I pointed out that established tech companies that lose their shine don't go out of business, they just go into the background like Microsoft has done. It's still there and still a very big company that is profitable, but consumers don't pay much attention to it anymore. I predicted that Apple is headed that way, which is what promoted the tangent.

Whether Apple is or not, there are a lot of big tech companies that were once big consumer brands that are still big companies in the industry, but they are more known in the business community than the public eye these days.

 

[_Redshift_]

It really depends if Tesla's competitors can eventually produce a better product. From what I've seen so far, the competing cars are either about the same in capabilities or even a bit worse.

I am not sure how seriously you have looked.

The interior of a MBZ EQE blows the Model S interior to Mars. The EQE/ EQS exterior design may not be that great, but the Model S is so freaking old now, it’s rear hasn’t changed in 10 years! It’s front is the same since 2016-17.

The range is comparable, the ride is likely much better, and the charging network is coming up, fast.

Tesla has just become too unfocused and arrogant. The stupid FSD that never is good enough, build quality, interior that’s like a economy sedan, horrendous UI changes, strange yokes, haptic capacitive buttons for the horn and other controls… Tesla is actually pretty bad from many angles of carmaking.

The competition will catch up in 2 years. Wait and see.

 

[_Redshift_]

It took time, and there was never a single ‘iPhone killer,’ but competition did come. In terms of individual phone models, Apple has the lead, but if you compare iOS vs Android it's a different story. Ultimately, the competition was good - There were useful features that android developed that made their way into iOS and I'm convinced that the competition spurred Apple to improve iOS in ways they would not have otherwise done.


Even if they have a comparable product it will be enough. Many people don't necessarily want FSD, they just want to go electric, and many people have never watched Space Balls or have any interest in games or fart noises. For them, the interface will matter and having an utter mess like V11 will be a turnoff.

Once again, I find myself in complete agreement.

 

[_Redshift_]

Not to get too off thread here, but I have no idea where your info is coming from.

The delta between the watch being released and Steve's passing was nearly 4 years. no product that's "very far in the development cycle" takes another 4 years to release, unless it's a product made by Elon and "very far in the development cycle" is something he says that is in fact completely divorced from reality (see FSD).

To compare AirPods to wired buds is laughable. The only thing they have in common is the audio driver.

If you're not familiar with the pro display and HomePod, you are either living under a rock or should just stop talking about Apple.

The iPod CPUs have almost nothing to do with the new M1 chips. They are an evolution of the A4 chips originally used in the iPhone, but if it's so obvious and incremental, why is no other company having success with such an iterative model? Intel's latest chips can barely eek out the same perf as M1…while consuming 2-3x the amount of power. Qualcomm has been making mobile chips for decades yet I don't see them releasing laptop CPUs.

with those facts out of the way, I guess we can come back to the thing that triggered your response:


I don't know that this is true. People (including bears) have been saying this for years. Remember panel gaps? I do, and that was over 3 years ago. The only thing that has happened since is Tesla has scaled their deliveries and the stock is up 1300%.

the sad reality is that people in society in general have deprioritized quality and longevity in pretty much everything they buy and use. people talk about how fast fashion is destroying the environment, but this applies to everything. people just want something quick and cheap and they don't care how long it lasts. no one is interested in OS releases full of bug fixes, they want new features and emoji. that's the reality. I'm sure Tesla has stats on what features get used and how much, and the reason they keep adding games is because people play them. I personally don't know anyone that does, but I can't imagine them spending resources and licensing money on games that no one uses.

“the sad reality is that people in society in general have deprioritized quality and longevity in pretty much everything they buy and use. people talk about how fast fashion is destroying the environment, but this applies to everything. people just want something quick and cheap and they don't care how long it lasts. no one is interested in OS releases full of bug fixes, they want new features and emoji. that's the reality.”

Wise and sage comment.

 

[_Redshift_]

Not to get too off thread here, but I have no idea where your info is coming from.

The delta between the watch being released and Steve's passing was nearly 4 years. no product that's "very far in the development cycle" takes another 4 years to release, unless it's a product made by Elon and "very far in the development cycle" is something he says that is in fact completely divorced from reality (see FSD).

To compare AirPods to wired buds is laughable. The only thing they have in common is the audio driver.

If you're not familiar with the pro display and HomePod, you are either living under a rock or should just stop talking about Apple.

The iPod CPUs have almost nothing to do with the new M1 chips. They are an evolution of the A4 chips originally used in the iPhone, but if it's so obvious and incremental, why is no other company having success with such an iterative model? Intel's latest chips can barely eek out the same perf as M1…while consuming 2-3x the amount of power. Qualcomm has been making mobile chips for decades yet I don't see them releasing laptop CPUs.

with those facts out of the way, I guess we can come back to the thing that triggered your response:


I don't know that this is true. People (including bears) have been saying this for years. Remember panel gaps? I do, and that was over 3 years ago. The only thing that has happened since is Tesla has scaled their deliveries and the stock is up 1300%.

the sad reality is that people in society in general have deprioritized quality and longevity in pretty much everything they buy and use. people talk about how fast fashion is destroying the environment, but this applies to everything. people just want something quick and cheap and they don't care how long it lasts. no one is interested in OS releases full of bug fixes, they want new features and emoji. that's the reality. I'm sure Tesla has stats on what features get used and how much, and the reason they keep adding games is because people play them. I personally don't know anyone that does, but I can't imagine them spending resources and licensing money on games that no one uses.

“The iPod CPUs have almost nothing to do with the new M1 chips. They are an evolution of the A4 chips originally used in the iPhone, but if it's so obvious and incremental, why is no other company having success with such an iterative model? Intel's latest chips can barely eek out the same perf as M1…while consuming 2-3x the amount of power. Qualcomm has been making mobile chips for decades yet I don't see them releasing laptop CPUs.”

Exactly. The M1 has opened everyone’s eyes about power and performance in the semiconductor industry.
Everyone will be playing catch up for the next decade.

 

[Boza]

I am not sure how seriously you have looked.

The interior of a MBZ EQE blows the Model S interior to Mars. The EQE/ EQS exterior design may not be that great, but the Model S is so freaking old now, it’s rear hasn’t changed in 10 years! It’s front is the same since 2016-17.

The range is comparable, the ride is likely much better, and the charging network is coming up, fast.

Tesla has just become too unfocused and arrogant. The stupid FSD that never is good enough, build quality, interior that’s like a economy sedan, horrendous UI changes, strange yokes, haptic capacitive buttons for the horn and other controls… Tesla is actually pretty bad from many angles of carmaking.

The competition will catch up in 2 years. Wait and see.

Exactly! Had it not been for the range, I would be driving e-tron or Taycan by now and temporary accepting the suffering from the lack of Superchargers.

 

[DeepFrz]

The second quote is not mine. I responded to that. I pointed out that established tech companies that lose their shine don't go out of business, they just go into the background like Microsoft has done. It's still there and still a very big company that is profitable, but consumers don't pay much attention to it anymore. I predicted that Apple is headed that way, which is what promoted the tangent.

Whether Apple is or not, there are a lot of big tech companies that were once big consumer brands that are still big companies in the industry, but they are more known in the business community than the public eye these days.

Anyone remember Amdahl? How about Control Data Corp?

 

[COS Blue]

Exactly! Had it not been for the range, I would be driving e-tron or Taycan by now and temporary accepting the suffering from the lack of Superchargers.

i4 looks pretty nice. One thing Tesla has taught me is that you don't actually need 402 miles of range if you have fast chargers where you need them. By the time my MS is 5-7 years old, I'm quite certain I will have decent choices from a manufacturer who won't decide one day to hide my defroster buttons. And by then, an electric BMW will probably be able to use Tesla Superchargers. Thank you, Tesla!

 

[danarcha]

I am not sure how seriously you have looked.

The interior of a MBZ EQE blows the Model S interior to Mars. The EQE/ EQS exterior design may not be that great, but the Model S is so freaking old now, it’s rear hasn’t changed in 10 years! It’s front is the same since 2016-17.

The range is comparable, the ride is likely much better, and the charging network is coming up, fast.

Tesla has just become too unfocused and arrogant. The stupid FSD that never is good enough, build quality, interior that’s like a economy sedan, horrendous UI changes, strange yokes, haptic capacitive buttons for the horn and other controls… Tesla is actually pretty bad from many angles of carmaking.

The competition will catch up in 2 years. Wait and see.

The BMW iX looks incredible too. The interior is much more luxurious than any Tesla. The dashboard display is a single curved screen that starts to the left of the steering wheel and extends to the glove box area. There are other buttons and dial controls on the center console where a gear shift typically is. It is much more minimalistic that a typical ICE vehicle but seems to be a nice blend of touch screen, and physical buttons/controls. The SUV has 324 miles of range, with a 4.4s 0-60 time. Yes it is more expensive than a model Y at $83k, but I'm sure in about 5 years there will be many viable EV options from traditional manufacturers.

BMW iX website

On another note... today my 17 year old son rode in my model 3 for the first time after my v11 update. The first thing he said was "Oh cool, look at these icons, you got an update, nice!" Then he thought for a moment and said, "Wait, how do I adjust my seat warmer??" I showed him how, and he said, "Well it used to be right here on the screen why would they take that away?"

 

[afadeev]

The BMW iX looks incredible too. The interior is much more luxurious than any Tesla. The dashboard display is a single curved screen that starts to the left of the steering wheel and extends to the glove box area. There are other buttons and dial controls on the center console where a gear shift typically is. It is much more minimalistic that a typical ICE vehicle but seems to be a nice blend of touch screen, and physical buttons/controls. The SUV has 324 miles of range, with a 4.4s 0-60 time. Yes it is more expensive than a model Y at $83k, but I'm sure in about 5 years there will be many viable EV options from traditional manufacturers.

I'm not an SUV guy, so either TMY or iX wont be on my shopping list.
It should be noted, however, that iX is more of a competitor to Model X (not Y), in terms of size, weight, and price:

Competition improves the breed!

 

[Boza]

i4 looks pretty nice. One thing Tesla has taught me is that you don't actually need 402 miles of range if you have fast chargers where you need them. By the time my MS is 5-7 years old, I'm quite certain I will have decent choices from a manufacturer who won't decide one day to hide my defroster buttons. And by then, an electric BMW will probably be able to use Tesla Superchargers. Thank you, Tesla!

Generally, you are correct about the range. However, in the mountains during the winter 402 EPA becomes 200 real. Stopping to charge for 20 min turns into an hour (at least) with all the traffic here.
So, for me 400 EPA is the threshold.

BTW, I think the BMW grille is hideous

 

[_Redshift_]

Generally, you are correct about the range. However, in the mountains during the winter 402 EPA becomes 200 real. Stopping to charge for 20 min turns into an hour (at least) with all the traffic here.
So, for me 400 EPA is the threshold.

BTW, I think the BMW grille is hideous

Yes, BMW is trying to outdo the other ICE folks to take the top prize in the most hideous nose awards.

 

[_Redshift_]

The BMW iX looks incredible too. The interior is much more luxurious than any Tesla. The dashboard display is a single curved screen that starts to the left of the steering wheel and extends to the glove box area. There are other buttons and dial controls on the center console where a gear shift typically is. It is much more minimalistic that a typical ICE vehicle but seems to be a nice blend of touch screen, and physical buttons/controls. The SUV has 324 miles of range, with a 4.4s 0-60 time. Yes it is more expensive than a model Y at $83k, but I'm sure in about 5 years there will be many viable EV options from traditional manufacturers.

BMW iX website

On another note... today my 17 year old son rode in my model 3 for the first time after my v11 update. The first thing he said was "Oh cool, look at these icons, you got an update, nice!" Then he thought for a moment and said, "Wait, how do I adjust my seat warmer??" I showed him how, and he said, "Well it used to be right here on the screen why would they take that away?"

I used to be a big BMW fan. Until they went down the tubes with their F and G platforms.
I am prepared to give them another chance. However two things kill it for me:

The curb weight of their electrics;
The super ugly (back to the origins) nose.