v11 software update SUCKS

[ianc]

If the reaction on the TMC forums to the V11 UI actually mimicked the response of the full Tesla user base, Tesla would have gone back to the old UI.

Ummm... Just because there are a lot of clueless people around doesn't make it any less of an issue. Witness the 2016 presidential election.

And Tesla will never go back to the old UI. To do so would be to admit they screwed up, and that's just not on old chap...

 

[Boza]

My informal estimate of the reaction to the V11 UI is this. The TMC forums are populated by hard core Tesla junkies. That's not to say that casual owners don't visit, participate and benefit. But passions run deep here.

In my estimate, about a third of Tesla owners actually like the update. Another third don't like it, but are willing to see what changes will be made to address the loss of icons on the main screen. Some of these changes have already happened. Another 25% percent of Tesla owners have no idea that there is a V11 of the UI and many of those folks probably don't even know what a UI is. I run into them all the time. As an example of this obliviousness, I have a friend who has a M3 with FSD and not only did he not know about the UI fuss, he didn't even know that there was an FSD beta process. The rest (~10% or so) of the Tesla owners are completely unhappy with the V11 UI and are willing use repetition and hyperbole to make everyone else feel bad about their Tesla.

If the reaction on the TMC forums to the V11 UI actually mimicked the response of the full Tesla user base, Tesla would have gone back to the old UI. And for everyone that wants to sell your Tesla because of the UI, there are probably 2 or 3 people that will buy it from you immediately.

Well, I am at the point of accepting V11 because I do not have an alternative (except going back to ICE), at the moment. MB looks _very_ interesting but I am not a “first adopter”.
However, accepting and actively looking is not what I would consider a “loyal” customer.
In fact, my concern is that when I find an alternative there may not be so many people waiting to buy a Tesla. In the next few years Tesla will have some very serious challenges: bad quality (incl. software), bad customer service, over expansion, weird CEO… Just too many things. I hope they start changing their ways, for the sake of their mission.

 

[_jmk]

Well, I am at the point of accepting V11 because I do not have an alternative (except going back to ICE), at the moment. MB looks _very_ interesting but I am not a “first adopter”.
However, accepting and actively looking is not what I would consider a “loyal” customer.
In fact, my concern is that when I find an alternative there may not be so many people waiting to buy a Tesla. In the next few years Tesla will have some very serious challenges: bad quality (incl. software), bad customer service, over expansion, weird CEO… Just too many things. I hope they start changing their ways, for the sake of their mission.

I don't think they will, they prioritize the production efficiency for the next 10 years or so and that comes with issues. I don't blame them for this, the planet needs it. Tesla is the only vendor that can ship A LOT OF EVs.

Reason why I'm looking at the MB is not directly v11 related, but service. We haven't been able to book a service in Finland for months. For the past 6 months the case has been that there isn't a single service time available most of the time. It will take me 5 months to get our 3LRs trunk fixed as it doesn't open. This is not ok. If Tesla takes sole ownership of the service they should deliver.

 

[SalisburySam]

I have a Mercedes EQE reservation done as a backup if they don't revert this crap by then. Audi's look way too much like 'transformers' toys to me but Mercedes EQE + AWD + Hyperscreen is clean looking and efficient enough to qualify.

No idea when EQE will be available in the US, but the marketing on the MB website shows a very interesting vehicle. I can only assume it will have MB’s excellent fit and finish, early model growing pains, and high initial and ongoing service costs. Would love to have one at this point, looking to learn more as availability happens here. I somewhat agree about Audi’s “transformers” appearance, but I do really like their vehicles in general. One of my earliest cars was an Audi Fox and I loved it. Again, high levels of accurate fit and finish, excellent driving machines, etc. For me, they’re a contender for our EV Tesla replacement when that happens at some point.

That said, I’m also looking to replace our EV gateway drug, the 2012 Nissan LEAF and its now less-than-stellar 35-mile range. At this point after test driving a PoleStar2, XC40 Recharge, Kona EV6, Tesla Model Y, and Hyundai Ioniq5, the winner for us, by far, is the Hyundai. It has really, really limited availability so finding the one I want is an issue, but it will be a terrific LEAF replacement for us. With the actual physical buttons, switches, knobs, levers, etc. in all of those vehicles except the Model Y, no more issues with disappearing driving controls or learning a new driving interface after every firmware update of which I’ve received 93 so far.

 

[_jmk]

No idea when EQE will be available in the US, but the marketing on the MB website shows a very interesting vehicle. I can only assume it will have MB’s excellent fit and finish, early model growing pains, and high initial and ongoing service costs. Would love to have one at this point, looking to learn more as availability happens here. I somewhat agree about Audi’s “transformers” appearance, but I do really like their vehicles in general. One of my earliest cars was an Audi Fox and I loved it. Again, high levels of accurate fit and finish, excellent driving machines, etc. For me, they’re a contender for our EV Tesla replacement when that happens at some point.

That said, I’m also looking to replace our EV gateway drug, the 2012 Nissan LEAF and its now less-than-stellar 35-mile range. At this point after test driving a PoleStar2, XC40 Recharge, Kona EV6, Tesla Model Y, and Hyundai Ioniq5, the winner for us, by far, is the Hyundai. It has really, really limited availability so finding the one I want is an issue, but it will be a terrific LEAF replacement for us. With the actual physical buttons, switches, knobs, levers, etc. in all of those vehicles except the Model Y, no more issues with disappearing driving controls or learning a new driving interface after every firmware update of which I’ve received 93 so far.

Ioniq 5 and the sibling EV6 are a no-go here in the north due to the issues with heating and battery thermal management during the winter. A very old Tesla travels faster than that during the winter months.

Mercedes, once again, shines here. It's the only car that seems to pass the 'navigation test' across the country finding the correct 150kW+ chargers from the map and properly preheats the battery when approaching one. Flat charging curve is the same all through the year so you can charge when you want to and not when the car wants you to. Tesla's navigation doesn't really find anything but the whopping 11 superchargers we have. The amount of 3rd party 150kW+ chargers is now 10 fold, at least.

 

[Aellinsar]

Actually, the slider is there, just under the controls. But you have to get really close to see it - it is only one pixel big. Once you find it, you will need some practice sliding it (for everyone else’s sake - don’t drive while you do it!). After 10min you will be able to use it. It is actually cool - moving an invisible slide bar. My wife was impressed.

For me, the slider is there sometime and sometimes it's not. I have no idea what the algorithm is. (This time was one that it wasn't there.)

 

[FastEddieB]

So, I guess we just keep slipping, sliding, putting our right foot in, bending over, and jiggling the handle. And that's just to adjust the car's temperature.

I‘m kinda new here, and never experienced V10 or any prior, but regarding the above…

1) I can just hook my fingers behind the lower left of the screen and tap to the left or right of the temp display with my thumb to raise or lower the temp, or…

2) I can just press and hold the right scroll button on the steering wheel and say, “I’m hot” or “I’m cold” and the temp adjusts appropriately.

Neither seems especially difficult or convoluted.

I‘ll have more to say about v11 later, either here or in a related thread. v11 apparently was a big step backwards from v10 to many here, and as they say, “the perception is the reality”, so there’s that. But for someone jumping in fresh at V11, it’s not all that horrible - in fact it’s pretty cool and for the most part intuitive after a few drives. Far better than the two prior interfaces I’ve dealt with in prior cars.

 

[finman100]

you would rather tap twice on a disappearing menu than INSTANTLY glance and tap a VERY visible icon? (seat heaters in this case). and you also have to turn temp up or down to access this stupid tiny menu.

You would rather have to tap one icon to bring up an entire screen that covers the whole effing map just to see status icons that prior to stupid V11 were readily available and showing at a glance? (profile, wifi/cell connection, etc.)

I really think this is the stupidest UI in the history of cars. and Tesla could fix it. but they will not. because...

I've contacted my service center (portlandia, OR) twice and they cannot change it back but they've "heard" people don't like it. riiiight.

On to the NHTSA...

I'm just so angry every time i'm in my car. Great job, Elon. fu

 

[father_of_6]

I can just hook my fingers behind the lower left of the screen and tap to the left or right of the temp display with my thumb to raise or lower the temp

@FastEddieB - you've actually hit the nail on the head. V10 allowed you to "hook your hand on the bottom of the screen" and toggle the front defogger, rear defrost, driver seat heater, and passenger seat heater with your thumb because those functions had their own icons on the bottom bar.

Those 4 buttons were taken away in v11 and hidden behind the climate menu (which you see when touching the temperature twice). Unfortunately, not only did this make those important functions harder, they now typically require eyes off the road for longer. Additionally, this change forces you to turn on the climate to adjust the seat heater.

So now for those 4 functions, which were previously one-touch, you have to touch the temperature twice (once to enable, once to open the menu), then you have to touch the secondary button (which is no longer anchored to the bottom for your handy thumb trick... you have to hover your hand in the middle of the screen and look at it), THEN you have to turn off the climate if you didn't want it on in the first place.

Astonishingly, those buttons were removed because v11 allows you to "customize" the bottom bar... but only with buttons that open entertainment features.

This might sound like shark jumping to some, but if you live in colder climates and quickly lose visibility due to windshield fog, the last thing you want to do is look down at the screen for 4 seconds to clear it... and sometimes this has to happen frequently during a drive.

If you just got the car, you wouldn't know any better... but to have this regression pushed after owning the car for a year, it's a real kick in the teeth.

 

[father_of_6]

Golly, I don't seem to have any of these problems on my S or my 3. Wonder why?

Do you interact with the touchscreen much? Napa Valley's coldest temps are about 40 degrees... That's shorts and a hoodie weather for me.

Losing important climate functions from the bottom bar may not matter much to you, but if they removed access to showtunes perhaps you'd be more sympathetic to most of us here.

 

[_jmk]

BTW my *most used* button on the touch screen is the defogger in both of our cars (LRX, LR3). While the car normally doesn't fog up when starting to drive long distance and its properly preheated in advance, it always fogs up pretty fast when doing stop-and-go when it's freezing out. Quite often it does it many, many times before it dries up again enough and the windscreen starts to stay clean. v11 makes this seriously annoying.

I just took kids to the daycare, school and went to the store quickly. 4 defogger presses this time. -3c outside. Dry and beautiful sunny morning, so one of the good mornings in this sense.

 

[gnuarm]

Is this a typo? The UI *does* impact the operation of the car. Significantly.

In my car, I can still drive when the UI is rebooting. I know because more than once I have had it spontaneously reboot and go black for a while.

I suppose we have different definitions of what "impact" means. I'm saying they can modify the details of what the car does without changing the UI, other than possibly to add a setting. They could, for example, make the automatic wipers actually work properly! That would require zero change to the UI. The UI can turn upside down and it would not impact the way the wipers work... well, maybe in a model 3 since they are turned on in the UI rather than on the turn signal stalk. Very weird. It's like they don't understand that the automatic wipers are still "beta".

 

[gnuarm]

My hope is pinned on NHTSA, unfortunately.
BTW, voting is not how one designs critical interfaces; it is not democracy

Lol, that's funny. The idea that we can let a bunch of egg heads have responsibility for our lives and have no say in the matter. I don't know what motivates Tesla. I often think they are what we would call a "top down" company, but in this case it's about the company dictating to you, not management dictating to the employees.

Normally, you get to "vote" on the UI when you buy a car. Tesla has "improved" on that and allowed you a second opportunity to vote when they change the UI. Now you can vote again by selling the car.

There are decades in research and science behind UI design.

That would be ideal. I only wish Tesla would do that. Clearly they have not done decades of research into this UI. Heck, they haven't been in business that long.

For example, for non-critical UI you make the most used functions easiest to access. In critical UI you put the most critical functions easiest to access. That is why the big, red STOP button is right in the middle - not because people use it every minute.
For some reason Tesla decided to ignore the accumulated wisdom in the field, which is, unfortunately, too common approach lately - as if the world did not exist before them.

That must be why they put the wiper control in the GUI rather than on a stalk in the model 3 and Y, because it's not at all important to be able to turn on the wipers quickly without taking your eyes off the road when it suddenly starts to rain?

 

[father_of_6]

That must be why they put the wiper control in the GUI rather than on a stalk in the model 3 and Y, because it's not at all important to be able to turn on the wipers quickly without taking your eyes off the road when it suddenly starts to rain?

I *really* wish after pushing the left stalk button to wipe the windshield, one of the scroll wheels would control the manual wiper speed (but only while the wiper menu is visible on the screen). It would also need *many* more speeds (instead of just 4). This would be ideal and not require the UI. It would resolve any gripes I have about Tesla's wiper functionality.

 

[OxBrew]

I *really* wish after pushing the left stalk button to wipe the windshield, one of the scroll wheels would control the manual wiper speed (but only while the wiper menu is visible on the screen). It would also need *many* more speeds (instead of just 4). This would be ideal and not require the UI. It would resolve any gripes I have about Tesla's wiper functionality.

+100, agree, exactly, this.

 

[gnuarm]

This is a long thread, I haven't read it all. Has anyone else seen a loss of the old charging screen in V.11? I have a model X and charging tonight I can only see that it is charging, not the rate or the estimated time to complete. I thought I was simply looking at the wrong screen, but after looking at the manual, I think the manual is borked. It shows the old screen with all the info. Have they not updated the manuals in the cars???

I had the chance to commiserate with a couple who own a model 3 and Y, they both hate V.11 and have also had bad experiences with Tesla service. In fact, when the guy put his car into the Tesla body shop for an estimate, not even a repair, an employee took the car home and drove it around having to charge it several times. Seems they can turn off tracking in your app, so he couldn't tell where it was. Tell me Tesla service isn't borked!

 

[lensovet]

This is a long thread, I haven't read it all. Has anyone else seen a loss of the old charging screen in V.11? I have a model X and charging tonight I can only see that it is charging, not the rate or the estimated time to complete. I thought I was simply looking at the wrong screen, but after looking at the manual, I think the manual is borked. It shows the old screen with all the info. Have they not updated the manuals in the cars???

Not sure about the X, but someone complained that in the 3 they made the text really small and low contrast. So maybe look more closely?

 

[gnuarm]

Not sure about the X, but someone complained that in the 3 they made the text really small and low contrast. So maybe look more closely?

Look more closely at what, the screen or the manual?

Yeah, that's another one of my complaints. Seems the 20 year olds, with perfect vision have taken over at Tesla and the 17" screen is using 6 point fonts. In particular, the labels on the new icons are in a medium grey against a black background and very small, so virtually invisible. Worse they are only on the selection list and not on the icons on the main display anyway. WTF???!!!

 

[lensovet]

the screen

 

[COS Blue]

This is a long thread, I haven't read it all. Has anyone else seen a loss of the old charging screen in V.11?

I think you mean the screen shown in this post: v11 software update SUCKS

Just looking at that picture makes me sad now. Look how easily I used to be able to turn on seat heaters and defogger!