Did not know where to put this but with PG&E power outages I would love to use my car as battery backup. I checked into the powerwall but my cost would be about $18,500 installed for a 27 KW system. The batteries are about $13,000 of the cost. Since my car has 85kw it would make more since to use it. I know Tesla does not supply a way to do it since the original roadster. However there is a company Occiaso (Ossiaco: Power will never be the same.) that is coming out with a system to do it. Has any on checked it out and wonder if PG&E would allow it.
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V2G with PG&E, Tesla, and Ossiaco?
- Thread starter rays427
- Start date
Merrill
Merrill
Sounds interesting, wonder how hard it is to install cannot believe it could be a whole house backup.
Tesla changes the warranty when PowerWalls are charged from the grid - and not the sun.
If Tesla supported using a vehicle battery for powering a house, it's likely that would change the vehicle's battery warranty.
And if Tesla doesn't support vehicle use as a power source, doing so would likely invalidate Tesla's battery warranty.
We have 4 PowerWalls, capable of providing up to 50KWh of power (in theory) - and an S 100D and X 100D, which could provide a lot more power...
Though in an extended power outage (days), the large charge in the vehicles should allow us to run for days without having to recharge the vehicles and focus our solar/PW power on the house circuits.
If Tesla supported using a vehicle battery for powering a house, it's likely that would change the vehicle's battery warranty.
And if Tesla doesn't support vehicle use as a power source, doing so would likely invalidate Tesla's battery warranty.
We have 4 PowerWalls, capable of providing up to 50KWh of power (in theory) - and an S 100D and X 100D, which could provide a lot more power...
Though in an extended power outage (days), the large charge in the vehicles should allow us to run for days without having to recharge the vehicles and focus our solar/PW power on the house circuits.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
V2H/G does sound like a great idea but as was noted, vehicle manufactures are not going to rush to this and also support a warranty on the battery. We are already seeing issues with restricting charging and numerous reports of larger than expected battery degradation just with normal driving on Teslas.
I would suspect if anything we see Tesla be more proactive about the combination use of cars and Powerwalls by perhaps allowing the car to come home and top off a solar supported Powerwall when it's constantly cloudy out for days etc. In theory a well designed solar supported Powerall install could last forever if it did not cloud over and you always had solar. That will never happen so filling those "gap" days would be nice with V2H technology IMHO.
OP: If your car is out of warranty (probably not since the battery on an 85 is covered for 8 years), you could go for this but I would seriously think Tesla would walk away from any claim you tried to make if you did this during your battery warranty period.
I have no idea how this would work with a Tesla. Scanning the website it looked like they can max the power from a car at 7kW. This assumes that you can go bidirectional from a Tesla plug and at that rate. Powerwalls can do 5kW each. Many people have 2-3 Powerwalls and even then are restricted by the types of home devices they can support (for example I had to isolate my heat pumps and spa as they can draw 20 kWs total at times).
So you would need to do the same serious home energy audit that you would for Powerwalls and really see how much kW (continuous) they can support to run your critical home loads.
BTW there is a 26% tax credit for solar supplied Powerwalls so your $18,500 is about $13,700 if that helps.
I would suspect if anything we see Tesla be more proactive about the combination use of cars and Powerwalls by perhaps allowing the car to come home and top off a solar supported Powerwall when it's constantly cloudy out for days etc. In theory a well designed solar supported Powerall install could last forever if it did not cloud over and you always had solar. That will never happen so filling those "gap" days would be nice with V2H technology IMHO.
OP: If your car is out of warranty (probably not since the battery on an 85 is covered for 8 years), you could go for this but I would seriously think Tesla would walk away from any claim you tried to make if you did this during your battery warranty period.
I have no idea how this would work with a Tesla. Scanning the website it looked like they can max the power from a car at 7kW. This assumes that you can go bidirectional from a Tesla plug and at that rate. Powerwalls can do 5kW each. Many people have 2-3 Powerwalls and even then are restricted by the types of home devices they can support (for example I had to isolate my heat pumps and spa as they can draw 20 kWs total at times).
So you would need to do the same serious home energy audit that you would for Powerwalls and really see how much kW (continuous) they can support to run your critical home loads.
BTW there is a 26% tax credit for solar supplied Powerwalls so your $18,500 is about $13,700 if that helps.
I'm resurrecting this thread from the gold ol' days (pre-COVID)...
So I'm still talking with some East Bay electricians to try and get my HPWC installed (sigh). But one electrician nerded out and said instead of a Tesla HPWC I should get the Ossiaco Dcbel. He says the product should be out in a few months. I'll speak with this guy today and see what he's learned so far.
No, I'm not schilling this product; because I really have no clue what it is. But it purports to allow V2G. Although for $5,000 it better also air fry and have a brick oven pizza maker built in.
dcbel.ossiaco.com
So I'm still talking with some East Bay electricians to try and get my HPWC installed (sigh). But one electrician nerded out and said instead of a Tesla HPWC I should get the Ossiaco Dcbel. He says the product should be out in a few months. I'll speak with this guy today and see what he's learned so far.
No, I'm not schilling this product; because I really have no clue what it is. But it purports to allow V2G. Although for $5,000 it better also air fry and have a brick oven pizza maker built in.
Our Product r16 - dcbel
Charge your electric vehicle with solar energy and transform its battery into a backup power source with dcbel r16.
dcbel.ossiaco.com
So, does an EV have to support V2G to make that work?I'm resurrecting this thread from the gold ol' days (pre-COVID)...
So I'm still talking with some East Bay electricians to try and get my HPWC installed (sigh). But one electrician nerded out and said instead of a Tesla HPWC I should get the Ossiaco Dcbel. He says the product should be out in a few months. I'll speak with this guy today and see what he's learned so far.
No, I'm not schilling this product; because I really have no clue what it is. But it purports to allow V2G. Although for $5,000 it better also air fry and have a brick oven pizza maker built in.
Our Product r16 - dcbel
Charge your electric vehicle with solar energy and transform its battery into a backup power source with dcbel r16.
I certainly dont know how it would work with an EV that doesnt support bi directional electricity flow, and teslas currently dont (although they are not the only EV, for sure).
That website is a lot of fluff with no real information at all that I can see. I certainly wouldnt spend money on that, but then again I have a tesla vehicle and they dont support V2G or bi directional flow from the charge port now.
That website is a lot of fluff with no real information at all that I can see. I certainly wouldnt spend money on that, but then again I have a tesla vehicle and they dont support V2G or bi directional flow from the charge port now.
As far as I can tell, there aren't any cars that are currently compatible haha. I guess one day when enough people Tweet Elon to allow V2G...
GenSao
Member
To not void the EV battery warranty, Yes. Note, their diagram shows DC-DC is the only way to get V2G. The system can charge any EV by solar.
Interesting to see TWO sets of 240V AC in the wiring line diagram. I am not sure why. Also, the dcbel requires an external UPS for power. For backup power in the US, there is five separate devices needed (Tempo, ATS, 7.6 kW Transformer(s), UPS, and debel) plus DC solar, battery, and EV Connections. At least this system mitigates some of the AC-DC conversion loss.
Cool... so basically this thing is trying to put the Solar Inverter and Backup Gateway into one box. Elon will not be pleased.
It'd be cool to see someone get this + some (AC? DC?) coupled battery to compare with the TEG2 + SolarEdge + PW2 we often see on TMC.
It'd be cool to see someone get this + some (AC? DC?) coupled battery to compare with the TEG2 + SolarEdge + PW2 we often see on TMC.
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It works with cars with CHADEMO Level 3 DC chargers (e.g. Nissan Leaf). Here is another V2H adapter for CHADEMO.
Too bad Tesla is a laggard in this area. The new F150 Hybrid now offers 7KW 120/240V pure sine wave inverter that looks very simple to use as temporary power even for whole house. Ford doesn't seem to have the concerns about the battery. I would like to see Telsa offer just the Powerwall inverter as add-on to Tesla cars similar to what the new F150 hybrid offers.
The MachE and F150E seem to imply that V2G is possible, but I don't think either is really V2G.
In the Super Bowl Mach E commercial, someone plugs in the Mustang at the same time Chevy Chase (weird to have Chevy do a Ford ad) plugs in his Christmas lights display. So the ad implies the car powers the house. But then Ford basically said that V2G was not happening on the Mach E; and it's just a bad viewer inference to assume them showing the car being plugged in and the house lighting up to be causation.
And the F150E can power appliances, but I don't see Ford authorizing this thing to be plugged into a sub-panel on the home even though someone's probably going to make a harness that pulls that off.
Yes, appliances including the ones in your house. You don't see Ford explicitly banning it like Tesla.
Only the hybrid F150 is in production at this point and they use the gas engine to generate the 7.5 kW as far as I can tell.
Could be but I doubt it because the ICE version only has option for 2KW inverter while the hybrid has options for 7KW inverter. It suggests they are taking advantage of the traction battery system in the hybrid version for the 7KW inverter. Most likely the high voltage of the traction battery system makes it much easier to generate the high power required for the 7KW inverter. Typical ICE car alternator can only provide 13-15V which is not practical for 7KW inverter.
The F-150 Hybrid is not a plug in, so technically he is correct that all the energy does come from the gas engine, even if they are running the inverter off the hybrid traction battery.
Yes, that's why I assumed he was talking about where the inverter power was coming from directly. Otherwise, it's obvious that ICE is the only power source in all non-plugin hybrids.
Sorry I was not very clear on the point I was trying to make. I was mainly responding to your statement: "Ford doesn't seem to have the concerns about the battery." This use case with F150 Hybrid and its affect on the battery is quite different than using a Tesla for V2G/H.
I'm there with you and it would be great to be able to use the 40+ kWh that are in my car battery when I arrive home in the evening, but I understand the number of reasons that Tesla does not want to go down this path at this time.
Sure it's not exactly same but it is still V2H. It would be more understandable if Tesla explained their specific battery concerns. Of course they have to do more HW/SW engineering but does anyone doubt their ability to provide a system that works within the safe battery health parameters? For example, 5KW inverter that can only be used for temporary backup power (i.e. not long term daily cycling) within the safe 20% and 80% SOC range of the battery that does not have serious long term impact. On a M3LR that's more than 3xPW's and enough to run the essentials for quite a while. I personally feel the potential battery warranty issue often touted is a red herring.
