[V2H, V2L, V2G] CCS2 Bi-directional charging ISO 15118-20:2022

[Craig 128]

While bi-directional charging has been supported by CHAdeMO for quite some time, there has been no standards for CCS2 to facilitate the same functionality.

CHARIN Vehicle to Grid V2G Roadmap

I note ISO 15118-20:2022 Road vehicles — Vehicle to grid communication interface — Part 20: 2nd generation network layer and application layer requirements appears to have been published in April 2022. The Abstract states, This document defines the communication messages and sequence requirements for bidirectional power transfer.

I believe this is the standard manufacturers of Bi-directional DC chargers such as the

• WallBox Quasar Bi-directional DC Charger
• Rectifier Technologies Highbury DC Bi-directional Charger

and Vehicle manufacturers have been waiting for.

I was lead to believe Tesla were conducting trials into bi-directional changing in Europe (as they have the CCS2 socket. In the USA, Tesla use its proprietary connector) a while back, I assume on the pre-ratified standard.

Does anyone have any knowledge of this, or a roadmap for support (should Tesla decide to support it). I do note most of their competitors are coming out with proprietary V2L systems.

 

[MaartenD]

I was lead to believe Tesla were conducting trials into bi-directional changing in Europe (as they have the CCS2 socket. In the USA, Tesla use its proprietary connector) a while back, I assume on the pre-ratified standard.

Which Teslas have V2G capability? I've seen an in-depth Youtube video showing that 2020 Tesla Model Y does not and the maker comments that the 2021 Y also does not.

 

[f4eru]

V2G on the DC connector makes no economic sense.

 

[Hans Schulze]

V2G on the DC connector makes no economic sense.

Um, when Solar and standby batteries are all DC, why not have the car also use DC? Less conversions mean less losses. Feeding the car with AC also loses efficiency. DC to DC can be in the high 90%'s (some claim >97%). AC to DC is 80 to 90%.
400VDC PV is a reasonable thing to use to charge a 380VDC EV.
Please explain, if you mean something else.
Thanks

 

[moa999]

Consider what you want first...

Ultimately people want AC - to either power the house during peaks, or grid outage, or to feed back to the grid.

So it's simply a question of where you do that.
I can't see much demand for recharging a DC battery from the cars DC battery (indeed those with solar & batteries already have the lowest need for V2x)

CHAdeMO (being a DC only plug, cars typically also have a Type1/2 AC plug) does it on the wall with a relatively expensive inverter (circa US$7k from what I've seen)

The small number of CCS cars with V2L (Hyundai, Kia, Genesis, BYD) seemingly do it with a small inverter inside the car of max 3kW - so the cars have an 11kW charger/rectifier but only 3kW inverter.

In countries where you can already install a generator backup supply (that islands the property automatically) it should be fairly simple to hook V2x into that.

Becomes more complex when you want to manage peaks or send to the grid due to the safety issues around islanding in a grid outage.

 

[kjtwist]

Um, when Solar and standby batteries are all DC, why not have the car also use DC? Less conversions mean less losses. Feeding the car with AC also loses efficiency. DC to DC can be in the high 90%'s (some claim >97%). AC to DC is 80 to 90%.
400VDC PV is a reasonable thing to use to charge a 380VDC EV.
Please explain, if you mean something else.
Thanks

Hans. I couldn't agree with you more. The V2L crowd doesn't really know much about living on solar, or off grid. Solar or wind life means storage for when the sun doesn't shine. Thomas Edison understood that I think and Musk gets it too. DC to DC is very efficient. Their current controller board architecture appears to accept DC output. Its a matter of time before you can keep your stationary DC battery topped off from your car.

 

[kjtwist]

"I can't see much demand for recharging a DC battery from the cars DC battery (indeed those with solar & batteries already have the lowest need for V2x)"

Consider what you want first...

Ultimately people want AC - to either power the house during peaks, or grid outage, or to feed back to the grid.

So it's simply a question of where you do that.
I can't see much demand for recharging a DC battery from the cars DC battery (indeed those with solar & batteries already have the lowest need for V2x)

CHAdeMO (being a DC only plug, cars typically also have a Type1/2 AC plug) does it on the wall with a relatively expensive inverter (circa US$7k from what I've seen)

The small number of CCS cars with V2L (Hyundai, Kia, Genesis, BYD) seemingly do it with a small inverter inside the car of max 3kW - so the cars have an 11kW charger/rectifier but only 3kW inverter.

In countries where you can already install a generator backup supply (that islands the property automatically) it should be fairly simple to hook V2x into that.

Becomes more complex when you want to manage peaks or send to the grid due to the safety issues around islanding in a grid outage.

Maybe you can't see much demand because you don't understand how a sustainable future looks. Musk does. He said the opposite of your comment----
“I don’t think very many people are going to use bidirectional (AC) charging, unless you have a Powerwall (DC storage device)” said Tesla CEO Elon Musk

" if you have a Powerwall that can take the house load, then you can use your car as a supplementary energy source to the Powerwall."

Tesla developing bi-directional charging feature 'many people' won't use

Tesla will introduce bidirectional charging over the next two years, but doesn't expect many of its owners to use it.

www.carexpert.com.au

The entire alternative energy world runs on DC storage power . Its efficiently stored and when you need it, voila...its inverted to AC.

I live off grid now. Comfortably with AC, induction cooking and airfryers. My battery storage is the most expensive component. If I could use my Tesla to charge my lithium solar storage batteries I've saved big $$$$ and never have to worry if I have enough power to keep my refrigerator and AC running. Hans is correct. DC to DC charging is more efficient than AC to DC charging.. A 10,000 watts DC/AC inverter, with 10,000 watt solar charger All in 1 unit can be bought for $2500. Panels are cheap and getting cheaper and inverters with charge controllers are too. Batteries are coming down but they're still the most costly part of an energy sustainable future. I don't want my car providing AC power to my house or selling my surpluss cheaply to the big power companies for them to reap a profit. I want it to be an extention to my solar storage battery, act almost as one unified system. Toyota has already announced such a system.

Do you think maybe the world's largest automobile manufacturer knows something? Don't you think Musk knows this too....V2G is dead. V2B Vehicle to Battery is coming soon.