V3 SC is 50% more powerful than any non-Tesla DCFC for a 400V EV.

[Zoomit]

The new chargers that Electrify America and others are installing are rated for 350kW, but those power levels are only available for 800V cars (Taycan, e-tron GT). The stalls are rated for 350-375A (uncooled cable) and 500A (liquid cooled cable).

Examples:

• https://library.e.abb.com/public/afeb1d2ee6ed440cbaf384050214fe90/TerraHP_UL_G2_DataSheet_R2.pdf
• BTCPower
• SIGNET EV INC.
• http://electricmobility.efacec.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/CS377I1706B1_HV.pdf

The V3 Superchargers seem to be capable of at least 750A, given they are charging Model 3s at low SOC at over 250kW. [250,000W / 333V = 750A].

This basically means that a V3 Supercharger is capable of providing 50% more power into a 400V EV than any other DCFC unit.

 

[SageBrush]

True enough, although this peak rate is mostly about future proofing (and hype today.). Our cars will only see glimpses of it for seconds at a time. I'll be very interested to learn the 15% to 65% SoC charging time. I'm optimistic that it will average ~ 125 kW which is great. It also might be true that a specific window will allow 75 EPA miles in 5 minutes -- I imagine in the 10% - 30% SoC range or thereabouts. At least for me, that has tremendous utility. I imagine it will also have a lot of appeal to the drivers that want to drive 80+ mph or encounter headwinds or are driving in cold winter conditions. It kinda sorta turns my LR Model 3 into a 400 EPA mile range car.

And lastly, no power sharing and mitigation of the cold battery penalty are HUGE. If CCS has taught me anything, it is that the labeled peak rate is little more than a tease. The actual average power during a charging session throughout the year is what matters and Tesla has made great strides tonight.

 

[scaesare]

Agreed... I came up with similar current numbers.

This is a bit mind boggling, honestly, given:

- They are managing to do that with the same connector (although I assume deeper receptacles to accommodate longer pins in newer cars)

- According to Ingineerx the Model 3 chargeport cables are 2/0 as opposed to 3/0 in the S/X... which gives them only about 36% more cross sectional area

- The EPA docs stated a 525A pack limit

- The Supercharger stall cables are manageable (liquid cooling to the rescue)

- This implies a peak of a ~3.5C charge rate if the ~74kW Model 3 LR pack size estimate is correct


Wow.

 

[MP3Mike]

I'll be very interested to learn the 15% to 65% SoC charging time.

How about a 15%-80% of 24 minutes? Supercharger V3 unveiling in Fremont

 

[Zoomit]

True enough, although this peak rate is mostly about future proofing (and hype today.). Our cars will only see glimpses of it for seconds at a time.

No doubt the current generation of cars only see the peak power briefly during a charge, but it's really about future charging network capability. The non-Tesla DCFC network just got leap-frogged.

Imagine a Rivian and Tesla truck charging in 3 years. The Tesla is recharging 50% faster on a ~750A V3 and the Rivian waits on a 500A DCFC.

 

[Zoomit]

How about a 15%-80% of 24 minutes? Supercharger V3 unveiling in Fremont

Then there's the 167 miles in 16 minutes (15%-67%) from tesla_raj's periscope feed.

 

[Zoomit]

- This implies a peak of a ~3.5C charge rate if the ~74kW Model 3 LR pack size estimate is correct

C-rate would be calculated against the total battery capacity, not usable. So about 3.1C [250/80.5].

But still, that's higher than any other BEV past or present that I know of. Niro/Kona/Soul/Ioniq EV do about 2.2C. Spark EV does 2.6C. i-MiEV does 2.7C.

 

[scaesare]

C-rate would be calculated against the total battery capacity, not usable. So about 3.1C [250/80.5].

But still, that's higher than any other BEV past or present that I know of. Niro/Kona/Soul/Ioniq EV do about 2.2C. Spark EV does 2.6C. i-MiEV does 2.7C.

Isn't it ~74kWh total?

(rummages around the interwebz) Hmm... Jack says 80.5. Right you are... thanks for pointing that out.

 

[SageBrush]

Then there's the 167 miles in 16 minutes (15%-67%) from tesla_raj's periscope feed.

That is an average of 145 kW. WOW !!

Is there a link to the periscope feed you mention ?

 

[Zoomit]

That is an average of 145 kW. WOW !!

Is there a link to the periscope feed you mention ?

tesla_raj @tesla_raj

An average of 145kW is almost as much as the e-tron, which does 150kW to 80%, but uses a 95kWh pack. The Model 3 is averaging 626 mphc while the e-tron is averaging about 475 mphc, so that's 30% more range per unit time in the Model 3 (when started from a low SOC).

Charging with an Audi e-tron

 

[Curt Renz]

 

[CSFTN]

Arkansas here we come? N Dakota, Montana, Wyoming?

 

[SageBrush]

he Model 3 is averaging 626 mphc while the e-tron is averaging about 475 mphc

Your link says that the e-tron charges 10 km (6.2 miles) a minute. 6.2 * 60 = 372 mphc.

(my bolding)

The charge speed is up to 150 kW at our 175 kW fast chargers and up to 50 kW at our other chargers. In the charge curve below you can see the charge speed at both chargers. On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 minutes (175 kW charger) or in 30 minutes (50 kW charger). At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 80%. At a 50 kW charger this happens only at 98%.

 

[Zoomit]

Hm, let's do some math and see. Assume e-tron EPA range is 212mi. I don't remember how I got that number, but it's pretty close. We're comparing the 15-67% average charge rate.

212 * 0.52 = 110.2 mi

Then let's assume it charges at 150kW steady with a 93% conversion efficiency into 83.6kWh usable.

83.6* 0.52 = 43.47 kWh
43.47 / 0.93 / 150 = 0.3116 hrs to charge

110.2 / 0.3116 = 354 mphc

Which is pretty close to the 372 you quoted. Thanks for the catch! I don't know how I got 475; it was wrong.

Let's check the Model 3 numbers as well. The quoted performance is 167 mi (15-67%) in 16 min: 167 / 16 * 60 = 626mphc

However 0.52% is not 167 miles, it's 161 mi. So maybe it should be 161 / 16 * 60 = 604 mphc

Either way, it looks like the effective charge rate (mphc) is at least 70% higher for the Model 3 LR than the e-tron.

Doing more math for the Model 3 shows that it's getting [75 * 0.52 / 0.93 =] 41.94 kWh in 16 min or averaging 157 kW over that charge. So while the average charge power is higher, it's the difference in driving efficiency that is the main cause of the mphc discrepancy between these cars.

 

[MP3Mike]

However 0.52% is not 167 miles, it's 161 mi. So maybe it should be 161 / 16 * 60 = 604 mphc

Actually it is 169 miles, assuming this was a LR RWD car. (Remember that the LR RWD car has been updated to a range of 325 miles.)

 

[Zoomit]

That is true. It is reasonable to think a RWD car would have the 325 mi range on 2019.7.11, though I haven’t seen that confirmed.

 

[Blup85]

No doubt the current generation of cars only see the peak power briefly during a charge, but it's really about future charging network capability. The non-Tesla DCFC network just got leap-frogged.

Imagine a Rivian and Tesla truck charging in 3 years. The Tesla is recharging 50% faster on a ~750A V3 and the Rivian waits on a 500A DCFC.

If we assume the Tesla Truck will have a 180 to 200kwh pack, (LR version), the amount of range added from 5% to 22% SOC will be astounding! Seems the truck would be able to take almost 3 times the amps the 3 can take due to the relative battery size, but would it still be limited to 250kw?
Maybe the truck will have ports on both sides and double up at the supercharger lol.
Or br Teslz Semi mega charge capable?

Granted the truck will be an electron hog I'm sure.

 

[Zoomit]

The V3 SC appears optimized to provide a 400V-class battery as much as 650-800A. The truck will be ~400V and due to the increased battery capacity will be able to take the max amperage for longer than the Model 3. It may take 250kW up to 50% or so, depending on battery size and any improvements to the battery chemistry. That'll probably work out to a charge rate of 500-600 mphc, so about the same as a Model 3 at a Supercharger today.

 

[SageBrush]

It may take 250kW up to 50% or so, depending on battery size and any improvements to the battery chemistry. That'll probably work out to a charge rate of 500-600 mphc, so about the same as a Model 3 at a Supercharger today.

Musk said the Tesl Semi would be a little over 2 kWh per mile so ~ 125 mphc

 

[MP3Mike]

Musk said the Tesl Semi would be a little over 2 kWh per mile so ~ 125 mphc

No they said it would be under 2kWh per mile.