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V3 Supercharging coming

Discussion in 'Canada' started by pcons, Mar 7, 2019.

?

Do you care about the new V3 SC?

  1. Yes, I use SC regularly and this will help my typical travels.

    11.5%
  2. Yes, I don't use SC regularly but will use this on road trips.

    76.9%
  3. Yes, I don't use SC at all, but see why this benefits adoption by reducing wait times.

    6.4%
  4. No, I don't SC and don't plan to.

    2.6%
  5. No, I'm happy with V2 charging rates.

    2.6%
  1. pcons

    pcons Active Member

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    #1 pcons, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
    Interesting release about V3, I'm curious if people are excited about this? I added a poll for fun.

    https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging?redirect=no

    I guess it depends on how often you use SC. Personally, I don't because my 3 didn't come with any (bought before they started offering 6 months free), so I charge at home or one of the many free L2 stations near my house.

    But, there are a few key things for me in this release:

    1. They are going to make existing v2 SC faster, up to 145 kW.

    Given in Canada we pay for SC by time and not actual KWh I wonder if the SC price increase from a few months back was tied to this increase. The max rate has gone up by around 21%, which is less than the price increase I believe. Now I know that you won't always be 21% faster since it depends more on the battery temp, etc, but it's interesting how the math lines up.

    Also, it didn't say if V3 rates would be different from V2. You would think in Canada it would, otherwise the total recharge cost at V2 would be double that of V3 stations.

    2. V3 rolls out to model 3 first, but they say that model S and x will get functionality through software updates.

    This implies the V3 rate of 250kw isn't necessarily dependent on battery chemistry? Ie, a 2011 model S may be capable of the higher rate? If so, that would be unexpected. I thought the higher rate would need a different battery. Maybe this is still the case, but the wording does imply all Tesla's would be able to use V3 rates.

    3. It's neat that they are implementing a warming routine so you show up at the SC with an optimal battery temp.

    Its a bit counter intuitive; but it implies that by spending more energy on the way to a SC and arriving in a prepped state, you actually spend less total time there and therefore less total cost (since Canada SC charges by time not kwh). I wonder by how much. The release says up to 25% less time spent at a station, which is significant.
     
  2. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    It doesn't sound like the current S/X will get anything much. Maybe the 100s will get the ability to charge a a little higher rate for a short bit near the beginning of the charge cycle Certainly the present tapering curve doesn't imply that there's a lot of capacity to take a faster charge for very long.

    You aren't necessarily spending more energy on the way to the SC. Tesla actively cools the battery and so it's entirely possible that they let the batteries warm up naturally. Of course that won't work at -25!
     
  3. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Active Member

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    I've noted that my charging efficiency actually went up 3-4% when arriving home with a cold battery. TeslaFi data.

    So keeping the battery warm enough to take that much current while at the same time keeping it cool is what sets the Tesla SC's apart from the competition. V3SC will make gas stations look like a joke.
     
  4. ben1628

    ben1628 Member

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    Man, everyday there is a news from Tesla. The charging is already quite good in V2, now they are going to 145 kw, and with the pre warm of the battery, that should mean faster charging.

    Looks like V3 is only available to Long Range M3 when they appear in your friendly neighborhood
     
  5. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    I'm happy that V3 is coming, and overall it's a good move forward infrastructurally. Unfortunately, it may hurt sales of S and X unless there's some kind of refresh coming soon. Here's to hoping it'll come to fruition before I seriously start looking when my lease comes up.
     
  6. noicepls

    noicepls Member

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    V3 has the great benefit of not having to worry about where to park when supercharging. Park anywhere to charge without V2 charging-speed drops.
     
  7. McFlurri

    McFlurri Member

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    I have yet to use a supercharger since getting my Model 3 in May.

    But one of my main considerations for getting a Tesla was the Supercharge network (just in case)
     
    • Informative x 1
  8. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    how so? If you're a Model S or Model X, you will see only a 15-20% increase in speed)

    If you're in a model 3, you will now get what...400kms of range in 20 minutes? Most gas stations for MB C class/3 series/A4 type cars (Model 3 competitors) can give them 600kms of range in 3 minutes.

    So the tesla still takes about 10x the time
     
    • Disagree x 2
  9. ben1628

    ben1628 Member

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    Not if you need to wait in line in Costco to save yourself money. Premium gas is now at $1.34, and it will be 1.35 tomorrow in other gas station. I think Costco should be around 1.15 ish for premium.
     
  10. xG35

    xG35 Member

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    You also spend on average 10-20mins per week waiting and filling up with gas.

    With a EV, you only do that on road trips which is much fewer on an ongoing basis. The trade off is in the details.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    even if this wasn't a terrible argument (imposing a rare, slightly ridiculous condition on one side to make one's point, I'm guessing you're new to Tesla ownership and have never waited for a supercharger. That can take 90 minutes.
     
  12. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    #12 sakimano, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    So you're telling me, someone who has owned 2 teslas and driven 60,000 kms on them, about the benefits of owning an EV? Thanks? :)

    You're way off topic anyway. I responded to the guy who made the poor argument about the speed of this new supercharger 'making gas stations look like a joke'. It's not even close.

    And to your point of it taking 10 to 20 minutes a week filling up...what? It takes about 3 minutes to fill up a car. Pay at pump, and you're gone . Let's pretend its 4 minutes. You're suggesting that people are filling up, on average, 2.5 to 5 times per week? For a car that goes about 600kms on a full tank, that would mean they drive 1500 to 3000 kms A WEEK. That's 75,000 to 150,000 kms a year. So...
     
    • Like x 1
  13. antoinearnau

    antoinearnau Member

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    I guess it all depends where you live. I never saw a Supercharger filled more than a quarter. (Quebec).
     
  14. bijan

    bijan Member

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    I've never waited for a supercharger. Supercharged 21 times. Came close once in Kingston, was 4th or 5th car out of 6.
    Edit: got my model 3 in October.
     
  15. ben1628

    ben1628 Member

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    Since you have 2 Tesla, you don't need a newbie like me to share experiences. You know what you are getting.

    The point I think the other guy is trying to make is it will take less and less time to charge a Tesla. The biggest problem with EV is where and how long does it take to charge. I have been using Supercharger all over GTA and Niagara, never once I have to wait for a spot, I guess I am lucky. Some SC can charge faster, some slower.

    Since December, this EV experience is so awesome, I guess we are lucky since we come to this EV game so late and everything seems to get better. More SC, less charging and more readily available destination chargers and DC fast chargers. Not to mention all those great features that Tesla provide as time goes on.
     
  16. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Active Member

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    Line ups happens all the time visiting gas station. First for the pump, then the line to pay when they don't accept prepaid at the pump. It's all the same. There are more ICEVs on the road, therefore more line ups. Your argument would be when EVs = 50% of the vehicles on the road (I.E. Norway) maybe there'll be a 90 minute wait at the SC... but until that happens, EVs are way ahead of the game for time saved for daily use.

    Ever visit a OnRoute during a road trip and wait for food? washroom? paying for coffee? and gas? All added up, it's the time to charge an EV for the next leg.
     
  17. DMC-Orangeville

    DMC-Orangeville 85D and John Deere 5100E

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    Not always a Costco issue. The Shell nearest me (Mono Mills) usually has gas priced at Costco levels. My F250 truck is thirsty, so I go there. It's usually a 5-10 minute wait, 5 minutes to fill, and sometime 5-10 minutes to pay cash (long story on credit cards and gas stations) because there is ALWAYS at least one person who wants to check lottery tickets. It's usually 20 minutes to get out of there.

    I have been supercharging since March 2015 - probably 100 times - and never had to wait. (Mind you, I've never used Lawrence Ave SC). If they give us a 20% increase in speed, 20 minutes at a SC is very doable.....
     
  18. Birdman325

    Birdman325 Member

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    I’m sorry but comparing the time spent to pull off the 401, stop at an OnRoute, go to the bathroom, pump gas and leave to the time spent getting to and charging at a Supercharger is not a fair comparison; in terms of how far off the highway you have to go to the OnRoute vs the Supercharger, how often you have to stop and how long the stop takes.

    On the drive from Toronto to Montreal, I can stop at the OnRoute near Kingston which is about 30 seconds off / parallel to the highway, go to the bathroom, pump a full tank of gas (even if I have to go inside to pay by why would I) and be back in the road all within 15 minutes/ and that is not rushing. And that one stop will get me easily to Montreal with gas to spare. (Although with a lot of coffee I may need to stop a second time )

    The same trip in the same weather conditions means a stop at Kingston SC, which even though it’s as close as many to the highway is still 5 or 6 minutes off the the highway, a longer walk to the bathroom in the back of the outlet mall, no place for coffee, so that requires another stop) and then conservatively 20 minutes at the Supercharger which pretty much guarantees a second stop, probably at Cornwall which is a solid 8-10 minutes off the highway each way.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that breaking up the trip and stopping at superchargers is a problem, or a deal breaker and sure, the convenience of never having to go to a gas station and waking up with a “full tank” for 95% of my driving may well off set some added inconvenience on a road trip, but there are lots of posts which seem to suggest that stopping at a supercharger is not materially longer than a gas car- I just don’t think is true.

    Maybe most people really do stop routinely for 40 minute lunch breaks when on a 5 hour road trip somewhere, but for many people, it is important to appreciate it is still a very different experience. (In the winter with cold temps, Toronto to Montreal (525 km) is a much longer trip than in an ice car. That’s just the way it is.
     
    • Like x 4
  19. pcons

    pcons Active Member

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    Wow, this went off the rails quickly :)

    Maybe I should have added another option to the poll: will V3 SC be enough to speed adoption?

    Also, since nobody asked for my opinion, I'll give it as well on this topic :D

    Charging an EV should be done at home 99% of the time IMHO. SCs are useful for road trips. To me, since my car charges while I'm sleeping I save SIGNIFICANT amounts of time over the course of a year by not having to visit gas stations. If I do take a road trip, I would need to stop for a break every now and again anyway (eat, poop, etc...not necessarily in that order). Planning your EV route out properly for a reasonable length trip, and you actually wont spend a significantly longer amount of time vs gassing up (assuming you arent in Mad Max mode to get to your destination)....however, even if road trips/SC takes longer and you are in the aforementioned Mad Max mode: over the course of a year you spend significantly less time keeping your EV tank 'full'...at least that has been my overwhelming experience, and why my family is now 100% EV and not looking back.

    I'm not saying my use case should be everyone else's, but if you charge at home the time savings really adds up.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. Birdman325

    Birdman325 Member

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    My bad. Didn’t mean to “snap”. I just did the Toronto - Montreal - Toronto route recently and while I don’t mind the stopping, my passenger was not as “like minded” and I felt like I was constantly rationalizing, explaining etc.

    But I do believe that it is important that new users ( of which I am one - but road tripping is exactly as I thought it would be, except for the road - wind noise) are fully aware of the potential for significant time differences.
     

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