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V3 SuperCharging on Y?

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
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875
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There are very few V3 superchargers in the world right now. Its more of a concept for the future, even though the technology is complete.

Having 1 V3 supercharger on a long journey with many stops doesn't make much difference at all.

There is a V3 supercharger station just built in Darien, CT, maybe not too far from you if in southern NY.

Supercharger - Darien CT Rest Area
 
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johnmodely

Member
Jan 14, 2020
339
366
NY
There are very few V3 superchargers in the world right now. Its more of a concept for the future, even though the technology is complete.

Having 1 V3 supercharger on a long journey with many stops doesn't make much difference at all.

There is a V3 supercharger station just built in Darien, CT, maybe not too far from you if in southern NY.

Supercharger - Darien CT Rest Area

I just stopped at the fishkill one at 40%...didnt go above 130kw.
 

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
875
US
I just stopped at the fishkill one at 40%...didnt go above 130kw.

40% is too high I think. Try arriving between 5 and 20 state of charge.

If you were going on a trip, what you would do is unplug at 40-60% ideally, and then charge at the next station.


Here is a video where you can see how the charge rate drops toward 40%.
 
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Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
4,443
SoCal
Under rare ideal conditions, starting at 40% could see over 180 kW. I would not expect this kind of charge rate during temperate weather even if the car preconditions. The batteries are very sensitive to heat and have to be above 40 deg C to get close to these rates. Highway driving and preconditioning are very often not sufficient to heat the battery to allow ideal rates.

20190706-3lr-chrg-png.427140
 
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johnmodely

Member
Jan 14, 2020
339
366
NY
Under rare ideal conditions, starting at 40% could see over 180 kW. I would not expect this kind of charge rate during temperate weather even if the car preconditions. The batteries are very sensitive to heat and have to be above 40 deg C to get close to these rates. Highway driving and preconditioning are very often not sufficient to heat the battery to allow ideal rates.

20190706-3lr-chrg-png.427140
Oh wow didn't realize high rates are only available for a very small part of the battery range. I guess you really have to push the battery to below 10% on road trips if you really want to take advantage of V3 charges.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
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SoCal
Oh wow didn't realize high rates are only available for a very small part of the battery range. I guess you really have to push the battery to below 10% on road trips if you really want to take advantage of V3 charges.
Be careful and realize that the time savings between charging at 150 or 200 or 250 kW isn't a whole lot. If it gives you range anxiety to drive it below 10% then I'd submit that it's not worth it.

Under ideal conditions, the time it takes to charge from 5% to 65% on V3 is 14.6 minutes. While on a V2 Supercharger, the same 60% gain is 19.2 minutes. When you consider that charging under ideal conditions for your battery is so rare, the V3 savings due to charge power may only be 1-2 minutes at each stop. V3 Superchargers excel in other ways however. There's no stall sharing and they're better thermally regulated, so there's a higher chance of getting as much power as the car requests at a V3 station.

150kW at 50% is the key marker that I remember. If I'm getting more than 150kW when below 50%, I know I'm getting something more than at a V2 Supercharger. I'm happy as a clam if it ever reaches above 180kW or so. Even then, I know it'll likely only last for a few minutes, or less.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
4,443
SoCal
Since I posted the Model 3 charging profiles, I feel compelled to mention a recent post on the FB Tesla Model Y group. There is a claim that the Y can charge faster than the 3. The post author (Konstantin Mayarovich) did not divulge his source. Since we have it on pretty good authority that the 3 and Y have the same battery packs, I initially dismissed this claim.

However, there’s a chance it’s true. The coolant system is obviously different between the cars. The Octovalve and heat pump have replaced the Superbottle. Sandy Munro also commented that the Y radiator is “quite a bit bigger” than in the 3. (Model Y E20 @ 8:30) If the Y coolant system has a higher capacity to cool the battery, the Model Y charging profiles could be more aggressive than the 3 and allow higher charge power at higher SOC.

To be clear, this is just me being hopeful and trying to put pieces together; but if anyone witnesses higher charge rates than those Model 3 profiles I posted, I'd definitely like to know!
 
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Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
4,443
SoCal
Is there an app I can use to graph a charge profile? I can drain the battery and go to the local V3 supercharger and check what the profile looks like in for below 60% SOC
Here’s the long thread we used to collect the Model 3 data.
V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

Some people just took video of the screen which I digitized and plotted. The easiest way is probably TeslaFi, which will automatically collect charging data once per minute. It’s certainly not a very dense dataset but again it’s easy and collects both battery level (%SoC) and charge power (kW).

I signed up for TeslaFi before I got my 3. I’m a data nerd and love it. I wish there was an app, but it’s only web based. I don’t want to derail this thread, but you need to be comfortable with the security implications of using it. If you want to try it for free for 4 weeks you need a referral code. Mine is Zoomit44. Otherwise you can try it for 2 weeks free.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
4,443
SoCal
Forgot to mention that you can’t just “go to the V3 station” and expect near peak charging rates outside of Phoenix. The battery needs to be hot. The pre-conditioning done when a Supercharger is selected in the nav helps but it rarely gets the battery to optimum temperature. Flogging the car for a while does help. Battery heat is generated as a squared function of output power. So really high discharge or regen rates are needed. Acceleration can pull 100’s of kW from the battery and regen maxes at about 80kW, IIRC, maybe a little more. As a reference, highway cruising only needs about 25-30kW and produces MUCH less excess heat. That’s why just driving fast on the highway is NOT a sure way of heating the battery in mild or cold weather for optimal charge conditions.
 

Bikeman

Member
Jan 30, 2020
253
187
Chicago Area
...The battery needs to be hot. The pre-conditioning done when a Supercharger is selected in the nav helps but it rarely gets the battery to optimum temperature. Flogging the car for a while does help. Battery heat is generated as a squared function of output power. So really high discharge or regen rates are needed. Acceleration can pull 100’s of kW from the battery and regen maxes at about 80kW, IIRC, maybe a little more. As a reference, highway cruising only needs about 25-30kW and produces MUCH less excess heat...

Yes, true that, but not advised. Bjorn, Raj, Casey Green and maybe even Joy(?) have done videos on doing this to achieve faster and higher powered charging. But really, practicing that to charge faster isn't going to be healthy for the battery in the long run. More supercharging and battery thrashing is merely going to nerf the battery earlier. There will be a time (and sooner) that Tesla will permanently ramp down supercharging speeds for a given car. Bjorn's M3 has already been nerfed due to doing these things.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,278
4,443
SoCal
*IF* Bjorn’s Model 3 is nerfed it’s because he has Supercharged over 9 MWh into the car. Heating the battery via rapid discharge is certainly not great for the battery but it’s not any different than a lap or two at a track. That’s a long LONG way from the conditions Bjorn routinely puts his cars through.
 

Bikeman

Member
Jan 30, 2020
253
187
Chicago Area
*IF* Bjorn’s Model 3 is nerfed it’s because he has Supercharged over 9 MWh into the car. Heating the battery via rapid discharge is certainly not great for the battery but it’s not any different than a lap or two at a track.

He has SC'd it an awful lot, hasn't he? Pretty much killed his MX's battery, which Tesla did replace once, and long before he recently sold it. He has stated in a couple of his episodes that pre-heating rapidly by over-driving probably contributed to the early nerfing in his 3, but he wasn't sure if it made that much of a difference. The massive usage of SC'ing most assuredly did. I'm just suggesting that to do much of both activities won't benefit the car's battery in the long run. And long run is what we all want.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
17,238
41,825
Oregon
However, there’s a chance it’s true. The coolant system is obviously different between the cars. The Octovalve and heat pump have replaced the Superbottle. Sandy Munro also commented that the Y radiator is “quite a bit bigger” than in the 3. (Model Y E20 @ 8:30) If the Y coolant system has a higher capacity to cool the battery, the Model Y charging profiles could be more aggressive than the 3 and allow higher charge power at higher SOC.

Also, In the Model 3 it uses cables from the charge port to the battery, but Tesla replaced those cables with busbars in the Model Y. So it is possible that that increased the charging capabilities in the Model Y.
 

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