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V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3
- Thread starter Zoomit
- Start date
THX723
Member
A single data point to share, so take it for what it is.
During this past Thanksgiving break, I got to experience my first v3 supercharging @Kettleman City, CA. Sadly, I've only managed to obtain a peak rate of 178kW.
Battery temperature likely not the issue here, since I have been driving for 1hr-45m continuously at speed. Battery pre-warm was set and confirmed to have been triggered prior to arrival. Ambient temperature was a brisk 47*F. Now I did start with ~26%SOC and I am aware the charging profile taper begins at ~25%SOC. But I would have thought that would still translate to an ideal peak of 245kW? Realistically I was expecting to see 200s.
Instead, it reached 178kW fairly quickly and lingered there through the 40s and then tapered down as the profile suggested. Better luck next time.
FYI, I'm on firmware 2019.36.2.3 (M3 LR-AWD)
During this past Thanksgiving break, I got to experience my first v3 supercharging @Kettleman City, CA. Sadly, I've only managed to obtain a peak rate of 178kW.
Battery temperature likely not the issue here, since I have been driving for 1hr-45m continuously at speed. Battery pre-warm was set and confirmed to have been triggered prior to arrival. Ambient temperature was a brisk 47*F. Now I did start with ~26%SOC and I am aware the charging profile taper begins at ~25%SOC. But I would have thought that would still translate to an ideal peak of 245kW? Realistically I was expecting to see 200s.
Instead, it reached 178kW fairly quickly and lingered there through the 40s and then tapered down as the profile suggested. Better luck next time.
FYI, I'm on firmware 2019.36.2.3 (M3 LR-AWD)
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Could have been temperature, or it could have been the particular station. When traveling to Las Vegas Supercharger in October, I never saw the pre-warming (yes, I was navigating to the Supercharger) message (I had been driving for 5 hours at ~25kW battery power (~300Wh/mi@80mph) in 50-70 degree temps). I reached 251kW (I arrived at 7% and ~15% state of charge). So that suggests to me that the pre-warming message showing up may actually make it more likely that you will see reduced rates vs. seeing no warming message (when navigating to the Supercharger), because that would mean the battery requires warming to reach optimal rates.
So, it's possible the warming can't act quickly enough or get the temp up enough for 250kW over the entire range of state of charge where you should get 250kW. Or it could have been an issue with the station.
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A single data point to share, so take it for what it is.
During this past Thanksgiving break, I got to experience my first v3 supercharging @Kettleman City, CA. Sadly, I've only managed to obtain a peak rate of 178kW.
Battery temperature likely not the issue here, since I have been driving for 1hr-45m continuously at speed. Battery pre-warm was set and confirmed to have been triggered prior to arrival. Ambient temperature was a brisk 47*F. Now I did start with ~26%SOC and I am aware the charging profile taper begins at ~25%SOC. But I would have thought that would still translate to an ideal peak of 245kW? Realistically I was expecting to see 200s.
Instead, it reached 178kW fairly quickly and lingered there through the 40s and then tapered down as the profile suggested. Better luck next time.
FYI, I'm on firmware 2019.36.2.3 (M3 LR-AWD)
Kettleman City was very busy this past weekend. If the station was full, it's likely that the grid transformer was at capacity and the entire site was throttled.
Unless you have a real big battery (RBB) you cannot drive at 25 kW for 5 hours.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I had done a Supercharger stop at Yermo (where I had hit about 150kW) in the middle of that ~5 hour period...
The actual true average was 20kW for 5:15, looking at the numbers, including the 15 minutes of basically being stationary trying to get to LINQ. But long sustained stretches at 25kW.
THX723
Member
I share your sentiments.
Upon further reflection, there was no battery preconditioning notification (I'd confused this with my prior leg stopping @Hollister), so more than likely my battery was sufficiently warm. Can it be that my battery is actually too warm from the extended drive? Guess we'll never really know until I start logging CAN data in the future. Christmas Project!?
250kW v3 SC @Kettleman:
For comparison: 150kW v2 SC @Hollister
I knew that'd be the case, so we arrived early Sunday morning, when the place was nearly empty. Throttling shouldn't have been a factor, unless I had the misfortune of choosing a faulty one.
THX723
Member
@Zoomit Sorry I haven’t been keeping up with the latest, but has the v3 charging profile changed at all?
I’m curious, since I have had a few more v3 sessions over the Christmas holidays and noticed they had been tracking the ideal profile for 350kW CCS instead. Each time (starting from SOC in the 20s) topping out at ~185kW and then tapper off as expected.
Is that how they should have went?
I’m curious, since I have had a few more v3 sessions over the Christmas holidays and noticed they had been tracking the ideal profile for 350kW CCS instead. Each time (starting from SOC in the 20s) topping out at ~185kW and then tapper off as expected.
Is that how they should have went?
My past half dozen or so Supercharger sessions have been topping out at 135 kW on V2 units. Not sure if it’s temperature related or if our car is starting to limit charging speed. On a long trip this week, so I’ll keep an eye on it.
I don’t think the charging profiles have changed, but it’s abundantly clear that it’s very, very rare to have the “ideal” conditions to experience the full charge power available.
I rolled into a new V3 station this past week in what I would have guessed to be ideal charging conditions (single user of 8 stalls, cold chargers, chilly air temps, low SOC, preheated battery). I genuinely expected 240+kW, but only saw 58kW. After hyping the V3 charge power to my wife leading up to that stop, I was relegated to saying that at least it’s faster than our Bolt EV.
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bwilson4web
hit the spot
Measured:
Previous measurements limited to a peak of 100 kW.
Bob Wilson
Previous measurements limited to a peak of 100 kW.
Bob Wilson
EV-Tech Exp
Member
Recently I've had to be away from the forum as I've been super busy with work and life, though wanted to check in as I recently visited the first V3 supercharger outside of the US, and this thread was an excellent resource when aiming to understand what speed I should achieve!
My achieved charge rates were slightly lower than hoped, nevertheless impressive at 211kW peak, and 21 minutes from 10-70% SoC.
Thank you for the great contributions to the community @Zoomit , @darth_vad3r , @bwilson4web !
My achieved charge rates were slightly lower than hoped, nevertheless impressive at 211kW peak, and 21 minutes from 10-70% SoC.
Thank you for the great contributions to the community @Zoomit , @darth_vad3r , @bwilson4web !
MarcG
Active Member
I stopped by the relatively new Richmond v3 SC on Pierce st on a late night this weekend, and had my fastest charge ever (gained range over time).
Started at 21 RM (7%), ended at 150 RM (50%). My 100% range is currently 300 rated miles exactly.
This took exactly 10 minutes, which averages out to 191kW. Ambient temps were 16ºC (61ºF).
Color me impressed!
Started at 21 RM (7%), ended at 150 RM (50%). My 100% range is currently 300 rated miles exactly.
This took exactly 10 minutes, which averages out to 191kW. Ambient temps were 16ºC (61ºF).
Color me impressed!
Yeah, speeds have been seriously throttled in the year and half or so that I've had my car.
When it was new, I could go to a charger and get over 125kw consistently, even when I was just topping up from 50%-80% or so.
The only time I see those speeds now are when I take the battery really low.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Well, I guess I am happy with my 303 RM 100% charge and my 125kW charging up to 68% that is still over 70kW at 80% dropping off quickly over 86%, I had been getting concerned that my 2.5yo Tesla was getting old before it's time.
That last 5% I leave for charging at home, it's just SO SLOW. Really don't understand why people charge past 86% at any DC charger
That last 5% I leave for charging at home, it's just SO SLOW. Really don't understand why people charge past 86% at any DC charger
I want to test what the actual cycle life is of a Panasonic NCR18650B battery with fast charging from 0% to 100% in 30 minutes and with 500 cycles. See here my article (see the Tesla part at the end of the article).
Fast charging
I made a graph with the charge rate in C versus SOC:
The chart is for the Tesla Model 3 which uses 21700 cells instead of the 18650 cells. But I think the charge profile also applies to the 18650 cells because both batteries have the same specific energy, so I suspect that the chemistry of both batteries is equal.
Does anyone know more about this and is the chemistry indeed the same?
Fast charging
I made a graph with the charge rate in C versus SOC:
The chart is for the Tesla Model 3 which uses 21700 cells instead of the 18650 cells. But I think the charge profile also applies to the 18650 cells because both batteries have the same specific energy, so I suspect that the chemistry of both batteries is equal.
Does anyone know more about this and is the chemistry indeed the same?
I think there have been at least 3 different versions in the Tesla 18650 cells over the years and the latest 2170 cell coming out now is the third version in the Model 3. I don't know how much the chemistry actually changed in those versions and how those changes affect their ability to accept ~3C charge rates.
BM3B
“beaver”
I thought there were reports that the chemistry for the 2170 was different than the 18650.I want to test what the actual cycle life is of a Panasonic NCR18650B battery with fast charging from 0% to 100% in 30 minutes and with 500 cycles. See here my article (see the Tesla part at the end of the article).
Fast charging
I made a graph with the charge rate in C versus SOC:
The chart is for the Tesla Model 3 which uses 21700 cells instead of the 18650 cells. But I think the charge profile also applies to the 18650 cells because both batteries have the same specific energy, so I suspect that the chemistry of both batteries is equal.
Does anyone know more about this and is the chemistry indeed the same?
You’re referring to the better cooling due to a different module and pack architecture.
Assuming the chemistry was the same, the smaller 1865 cells could be cooled faster/better than 2170 cells due to the square-cube law.
This limit is one of the key reasons why Tesla changed to the tabless cell design for the even larger 4680 cells. With a traditional cell design, they could not have cooled the larger cells nearly as easily as the smaller cells.
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