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V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by Zoomit, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    #161 MarcG, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    @Zoomit as you may have seen in the Fremont SC V3 thread, I was able to charge my Model 3 Performance at a V3 stall tonight.

    My session went from 0% (1 Rated Mile remaining) to 80% SoC (248 Rated Miles for my P3D, which has just over 3,000 on the odometer). Oh and I’m on 2019.20.4.2.
    I navigated from San Francisco to this specific supercharger location, so I’m assuming it warmed up the battery over the 40-odd miles, though I never saw the message saying it was doing on-route warming.

    My car hit 250kW at 4% after staying around 125kW around 1-2%, then kept charging at 250kW until 25%.
    Then it tapered down quickly to ~175kW and stayed there between 33-44% (fans going wild in my car), then a fairly linear taper all the way to 80% (at which point I had to leave).

    So without further due, here’s a time-lapse video (sorry for the poor quality):

     
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  2. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    #162 MarcG, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    In case it makes it easier, here’s the charging session data from TeslaFi (though less granular, especially in the beginning):

    Date...........Time..........SoC..kW...RM
    2019/06/27 8:33:06 PM 00 000 001.28 Idling->Charging
    2019/06/27 8:34:06 PM 02 128 005.12
    2019/06/27 8:35:07 PM 05 250 015.80
    2019/06/27 8:36:07 PM 10 250 031.17
    2019/06/27 8:37:11 PM 15 250 046.97
    2019/06/27 8:38:11 PM 20 250 062.77
    2019/06/27 8:39:10 PM 25 250 077.71
    2019/06/27 8:40:11 PM 30 230 093.09
    2019/06/27 8:41:11 PM 34 171 105.47
    2019/06/27 8:42:14 PM 38 172 117.42
    2019/06/27 8:43:12 PM 41 173 127.25
    2019/06/27 8:44:10 PM 45 167 139.20
    2019/06/27 8:45:15 PM 48 152 149.88
    2019/06/27 8:46:12 PM 52 141 159.27
    2019/06/27 8:47:10 PM 54 131 168.66
    2019/06/27 8:48:10 PM 57 122 177.20
    2019/06/27 8:49:11 PM 60 112 184.89
    2019/06/27 8:50:13 PM 62 102 192.58
    2019/06/27 8:51:15 PM 64 096 198.98
    2019/06/27 8:52:14 PM 66 093 205.81
    2019/06/27 8:53:13 PM 68 090 212.22
    2019/06/27 8:54:13 PM 70 087 217.77
    2019/06/27 8:55:15 PM 72 082 224.17
    2019/06/27 8:56:14 PM 74 076 228.87
    2019/06/27 8:57:14 PM 75 070 233.99
    2019/06/27 8:58:15 PM 77 065 238.26
    2019/06/27 8:59:15 PM 79 060 243.39
    2019/06/27 9:00:14 PM 80 000 248.09 Charging->Idling
     
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  3. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    #163 Zoomit, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    Excellent! Thank you @MarcG for providing the video in addition to the TeslaFi data. The TeslaFi data provides higher resolution SoC data and the video fills in the gaps from the 1-min TeslaFi polling.
    • This validates the 25% initial taper point as predicted upthread.
    • The drop between 33-45% SoC was almost certainly caused by a battery temperature limit being reached. That will likely be avoided during colder ambient temperatures. It was 19C/66F outside per the video.
    • It looks like the charge changed from a constant voltage taper back to a constant current ramp. The car was requesting something around 440A [499*172/195] during that ramp.
    • The video validates the 3 LR AWD/P cars max out at an indicated 1021 mi/hr as predicted. (4.082 mi/hr per kW)
    I added a session of mine in dashed blue which I'll describe on the next post. Marc, have fun at Laguna Seca--keep the sticky side down!

    20190627 3LR chrg.png
     
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  4. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    #164 Zoomit, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    The graph in the previous post includes my charge session from this afternoon on 2019.20.4.2. The car had been in the sun all day with low 90's ambient temps. I sat with the car in Drive (hold) for about 15 min with the SC selected on nav and with the ORBW notification. During the 4-mile drive to the station, the notification disappeared. The ambient temperature during the charge session was 79F. HVAC was on the whole time.

    The charge power slightly exceeded my prediction for most of the session above 62% SoC. This validated the lower end of the profile, especially from 90-100%. The session took 46 minutes to get from 45% to hit 100% SoC. It then charged for 27 minutes at 100% --initially at 7kW and decreasing to 1kW. It never actually finished. I manually stopped it. (Only one other car was at the 6-stall Supercharger station during my time there.)

    Here's the 1-minute data from TeslaFi (date/time, SoC, kW, mi/hr, range):
    Code:
    6/27/19 19:27    45    143    583.2    137.24
    6/27/19 19:28    48    143    584    145.79
    6/27/19 19:29    51    138    564.3    156.48
    6/27/19 19:30    54    133    542.4    164.18
    6/27/19 19:31    56    128    521.8    172.3
    6/27/19 19:32    59    122    498.5    180.85
    6/27/19 19:33    62    115    470.2    189.83
    6/27/19 19:34    65    109    444.6    197.53
    6/27/19 19:35    67    102    417.1    204.79
    6/27/19 19:36    69    95    390    211.63
    6/27/19 19:37    71    90    366.3    216.77
    6/27/19 19:38    73    84    342.6    223.18
    6/27/19 19:39    75    78    316.3    229.16
    6/27/19 19:40    76    71    290.5    233.87
    6/27/19 19:41    78    66    268.2    239.43
    6/27/19 19:42    80    61    246.6    244.13
    6/27/19 19:43    81    56    230.1    247.98
    6/27/19 19:44    82    54    218.3    251.4
    6/27/19 19:45    83    50    205    255.24
    6/27/19 19:46    85    47    192.3    259.09
    6/27/19 19:47    86    45    183.5    262.09
    6/27/19 19:48    87    43    175    265.08
    6/27/19 19:49    87    41    167.6    267.22
    6/27/19 19:50    88    38    155.5    270.21
    6/27/19 19:51    89    36    147.8    272.77
    6/27/19 19:52    90    36    145.4    275.34
    6/27/19 19:53    91    33    134.1    277.9
    6/27/19 19:54    91    32    129.9    280.04
    6/27/19 19:55    92    29    119.8    282.61
    6/27/19 19:56    93    28    113    284.32
    6/27/19 19:57    94    26    105.9    286.46
    6/27/19 19:58    94    25    99.8    287.74
    6/27/19 19:59    95    23    97.1    289.45
    6/27/19 20:00    95    22    89.1    291.16
    6/27/19 20:01    96    20    81.9    292.87
    6/27/19 20:02    96    19    77    294.15
    6/27/19 20:03    97    17    70.6    295.43
    6/27/19 20:04    97    16    67.7    296.29
    6/27/19 20:05    97    15    62.6    298
    6/27/19 20:06    97    15    59.8    298.43
    6/27/19 20:07    98    13    54.2    299.71
    6/27/19 20:08    98    13    51    300.56
    6/27/19 20:09    98    11    46.5    301.42
    6/27/19 20:10    99    10    43.1    302.27
    6/27/19 20:11    99    10    40.1    303.13
    6/27/19 20:12    99    9    37.7    303.98
    6/27/19 20:13    99    8    33.9    304.41
    6/27/19 20:14    100    7    30.2    305.27
    6/27/19 20:15    100    7    28.9    305.69
    6/27/19 20:16    100    7    27.6    306.12
    6/27/19 20:17    100    6    23.5    306.53
    6/27/19 20:18    100    6    23.6    306.53
    6/27/19 20:19    100    5    22.5    306.53
    6/27/19 20:20    100    5    19.7    306.53
    6/27/19 20:21    100    5    18    306.53
    6/27/19 20:22    100    4    17.6    306.53
    6/27/19 20:23    100    4    15.8    306.53
    6/27/19 20:24    100    4    14.8    306.53
    6/27/19 20:25    100    3    13.4    306.53
    6/27/19 20:26    100    3    12.2    306.53
    6/27/19 20:27    100    3    11.6    306.53
    6/27/19 20:28    100    3    11.2    306.53
    6/27/19 20:29    100    2    10.5    306.53
    6/27/19 20:30    100    2    9.7    306.53
    6/27/19 20:31    100    2    9    306.53
    6/27/19 20:32    100    2    8.4    306.53
    6/27/19 20:33    100    2    6.4    306.53
    6/27/19 20:34    100    2    6.9    306.53
    6/27/19 20:35    100    2    6.7    306.53
    6/27/19 20:36    100    1    4.5    306.53
    6/27/19 20:37    100    1    5.6    306.53
    6/27/19 20:38    100    1    5.4    306.53
    6/27/19 20:39    100    1    5.2    306.53
    6/27/19 20:40    100    1    5    306.53
    6/27/19 20:41    100    1    5.7    306.53
    @darth_vad3r --It's a busy weekend, but I will try to respond to your posts about the new charts on Sunday.
     
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  5. darth_vad3r

    darth_vad3r Well-Known Sith

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    #lifehack - new way to avoid idle fees, charge ‘forever’ to 100% :)
     
  6. SoManyM3s

    SoManyM3s Member

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    @MarcG 0-80% in 27 minutes, that's awesome!!
     
  7. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    Thanks! Glad to help provide data. And thank you for putting it into graphs, as always!


    Indeed! And even better IMHO: 176 rated miles in 15 minutes :D
     
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  8. SAronian

    SAronian Member

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    I did a time-lapse video of my Fremont charge session.

    Model 3 LR RWD, 2019.20.4.2 55526e9

     
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  9. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing. Looks like you just barely hit over 200kW peak, so your battery may not have been warm enough.
    Did you park outside overnight? Also, I did not notice a message about on-route preconditioning. Was your navigation session set to the Fremont Supercharger itself as the destination?
     
  10. SAronian

    SAronian Member

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    I did use the freeway for about 20 miles, then stopped for a minute and navigated to the Fremont Supercharger from about 12 miles away. Which I assumed would have triggered ORBW, but I have never gotten the message. I'm not sure what additional conditions need to be met for battery warmup to be triggered.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web hit the spot

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    MarcG_010.jpg

    Bob Wilson
     
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  12. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Active Member

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    I like that camera angle, how do you have it mounted? What is it? GoPro?
     
  13. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    Thanks for making the example charts. I had done something similar a few years ago but never thought they were easily digestible for a layperson. I think they're interesting for EV geeks like us to compare charging performance but the data would be lost on my parents. I'm personally interested in presenting the data in a fashion to encourage comparing the charging performance of different cars, so buyers can make a more informed purchase decision. Most companies give charging performance in 0-80% in x minutes or xxx mi in yy minutes. That leaves a lot of details missing. For example, 75 mi in 5 minutes was a recent claim from Tesla during the V3 announcement. This capability has been proven but it is only available at very low battery levels. Ultimately, it's the inconsistency in the charge rate as the battery charges that leads to confusion. Each manufacturer designs their taper profiles differently. Add to that the difference in battery sizes and range and it's a quagmire.

    Here's a chart that might be closer to the goal. I'm again using the Model 3 and e-tron, partially because they are so different. The bar graphs have some rounding errors, but hopefully it's easy to interpret the charging differences between these two cars. For example, it's possible to visually comprehend that the e-tron takes twice as long to charge from 0 to 300 km. Also, it's easy to do a little arithmetic and determine that it takes about 17 minutes to charge from 150 up to 375km in the Model 3. This kind of chart would be easier to make using SoC on the X-axis, but the "average Joe" only cares about time and range. The obvious deficiency of this chart is that it has 75km "bins". The time to charge above 300km is in the e-tron or 450km in the Model 3 is ignored, except for the charge rate line. I choose 75km-sized bins as I was looking for ~5 bins for most EVs. Three bins is too few and 10 is too many.

    20190630 M3, e-tron chg time.png
     
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  14. SAronian

    SAronian Member

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    Captured with an iPhone at 4K attached to a suction mount suspended from the glass roof. The mount is an old one from a job I did about 20 years ago, It's from the Cullmann brand but no longer made. Hard to find something versatile, not too expensive and that's very stable.
     
  15. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Active Member

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    I'll keep shopping
     
  16. steve in socal

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    I charged at Fremont this weekend and was happy to get 120kw on my midrange. Ha ha.

    What is the theoretical max i could get on newest sofware, perfect temp, SOC etc?
     
  17. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    The MR charging profile is currently limited to 120kW peak until ~50% SoC. Like the SR profile, it appears to be limited to charge at the same c-rate (aka battery stress) as the LR packs on a 150kW V2 Supercharger.

    Hopefully someday both the MR and SR packs will be able to charge at 200kW and 168kW respectively. This would match the LR pack c-rate at 250kW.
     
  18. Wahbash

    Wahbash Member

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    I can't wait to try one of the V3 charge stations, but I'm on east coast so figure it will be awhile. :(

    Are there any maps available which show where they are being installed?
     
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  19. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    No V3-specific maps are public. The currently open V3 stations are Fremont and Hawthorne. Tesla's future Supercharging map is the best indication of what cities will get new stations, but we don't know which will get V2 or V3. I speculate that new inter-city stations in busy regions to get the V3 stalls first.
     
  20. Big Earl

    Big Earl Supporting Member

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    That wouldn’t follow Tesla’s (Elon’s?) statement that V3 will be used along long distance routes.

    If you follow some of the Canadian Supercharger threads (Moose Jaw, SK; Maple Creek, SK and Deep River, ON), you’ll find interesting new site construction methods that suggest the installation of V3 along the Trans Canada Highway.
     
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