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V3 Supercharging tested by Motor Trend...

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by Zcd1, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Zcd1

    Zcd1 Member

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    • Informative x 4
  2. Runt8

    Runt8 Active Member

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    Nice to see someone actually take the time to learn about the details of supercharging and not just throw in a bunch of buzzwords to fish for clicks. A very informative article!
     
  3. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    The article goes into nice depth (it's actual auto journalism instead of just a news blog) but it has some issues. My largest concern is that is comparing the V3 charging performance with the previous V2 charging performance. The author seemingly ignores the improved charging performance that the updated charging profiles provide to Urban, 120 and 150kW V3 stations. I understand their intent is to attempt to validate the Tesla claims for charging speed improvement, but they're misleading readers about the current charge rates at V2 stations.
     
  4. ralph142

    ralph142 Member

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    Is there a comparable article testing ccs or chademo dcfc systems from MT somewhere? Couldn’t find one.
     
  5. ljbad4life

    ljbad4life Member

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    It appears not. On the bright side, even with a few errors, it's a bit encouraging to see a major publication put out positive press. Perhaps this will get them to review other charging networks. The only down side with that is a few charging networks are really subpar (I have stories I can recount in another thread)

    I hope this V3 station is a sign of Tesla Rolling it out to other places soon!
     
  6. ralph142

    ralph142 Member

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    agreed. I've not experienced any problems, but I've heard lots of bitching about some of the chademo spots locally.
     
  7. acarney

    acarney Active Member

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    What do you think Tesla will do as SR and SR+ cars start to populate the V3 chargers more and more?

    A. Ban SR/SR+ cars from V3 chargers if there is a V2 charger within 10 or 20 miles of it?
    B. Charge SR/SR+ cars a per minute surcharge to use V3 chargers to make it a "last option only" type of thing
    C. If technically possible (which many think it is), bump the profile up to a peak rate of 160 to 170kW for SR/SR+ so they don't spend as much time taking up a V3 stall?
     
  8. Runt8

    Runt8 Active Member

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    D. None of the above.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. acarney

    acarney Active Member

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    I hope so (though I wouldn't mind a faster charge profile on the SR/SR+), but I am a little curious since Tesla is doing everything in their power to lower supercharger crowding. Limited max charge at busy locations to 80%, idle fees, uncapping the V2 chargers to squeeze every kW hour out of it, battery warm up on route, V3 chargers, etc.

    Now all that hard work and it gets held up because a bunch of SR+ cars are using them to charge and running at 100kW when long range model 3's can hit over 200kW and I soon suspect Model S/X will start rolling off the factory floor with drastically increased supercharging rates...
     
  10. darth_vad3r

    darth_vad3r Well-Known Sith

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    Option (E): Start enforcing hard-caps on charge limits of 90, 80, or 70% to stop the trickle-charging that slow things down a lot.

    Option C (faster charge rates for SR) should happen, if they scale the charge-rate up on a per-cell basis as they have already done on the LR, then the SR will get over 150kW. It should basically be able to do the same X% to Y% charge as an LR in the same amount of time. Of course that will be less miles, but it should theoretically be able to charge at the same rate. We are just talking about how long it takes to charge one 2170 cell after all. It doesn't matter much that there are 31 or 46 in parallel (I don't think).
     
  11. acarney

    acarney Active Member

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    By no means an expert on this, but that seems right. Absolute percentage should be close to the same but range gained would be less. I think if you allowed the quicker charge you would have more people leaving once it starts to taper off at ~50% to 60%. A 40% increase even in the SR+ should be good for about 80 miles real world. That would take ~8 minutes or so. Long distance drivers might still opt for a deeper charge but people arriving at a low SOC and locals probably would bail after 8 to 10 minutes.

    It could get confusing fast, and I kinda hope they don’t go this way, but rather then lowering those caps to 60 or 70% at busy locations to avoid the slow down, I would like to see like 4 out of 12 or 6 out of 24 or something be “full charge” stalls. That way if you are driving long distance and need every mile or range (because you’re in a SR/SR+) you still have that possibility, but then it encourages a large number of stalls to be turned over every 8 to 10 minutes.
     
  12. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    Why the expectation that a lot of SR+ / SR cars would be at superchargers? They only get free supercharging for 1-5k miles depending on referrals. Since its not free for most of them, they will charge there because they need to, not because its "free" (at least after their free referral miles run out).
     
  13. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    That would just cause really (really really) hard feelings about those people who pulled into those full charge slots and "didnt need it"... because that absolutely would happen. Also, everyone that had free unlimited supercharging would basically run here and say its "their right" to charge at those spots because they "already paid for it".

    Your overestimating your fellow humans if you think that, at least in the US, people would cordially share superchargers operating at different limits without issue in the same station.
     
  14. acarney

    acarney Active Member

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    Because I suspect Tesla will sell a lot of the SR+ models. While not exactly “the $35,000 Model 3”, it’s in an entirely different price bubble compared to the almost $50k long range (and this faster charging) model 3. So just by the nature of more cars on the road you’ll have more at superchargers. Right now the 100kW cap doesn’t seem slow, but two or three years down the road I expect just about all Model S and X will be able to charge at least the same speed as the long range model 3. Then that 100kW guy will be the “slow one”, and probably will then be the highest selling by volume Tesla... so... congestion
     
  15. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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  16. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    There will be more of the cars, thats for sure, but I am not convinced that means more of them at superchargers. I personally feel that just means more of them home charging. Its my belief that right now, "clogging" at supercharging is happening primarily because the people who have "free unlimited supercharge" are determined to get their "money's worth" out of that feature.

    Tesla offered that feature for far too long, in my opinion, but they did so to encourage people that driving an EV was ok. Im not convinced that more SR+ / SR cars on the road = a large amount of them at superchargers. Be interesting to see how it works out though. My thoughts are likely colored by the fact that I charge at home. Is that where you charge as well @acarney or do you charge at superchargers for daily use?
     
  17. darth_vad3r

    darth_vad3r Well-Known Sith

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    I don't think there's any evidence 100 kW is going to stay the way it is. The LR got a bump up in the profile for the 120 to 150kW change on V2, and for the V3. The SR just hasn't got it's profile updated (yet -- is the hope/expectation anyways).
     
    • Like x 1
  18. acarney

    acarney Active Member

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    I’ll charge at home, but apartment/condo dwellers might have to fall back to superchargers and then just people traveling. I guess it would be curious to know how many model 3’s are showing up at superchargers now compared to S/X. Model 3 never had free supercharging, right? That might start to give an indication if it’s abuse, or normal usage...
     
  19. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    Certain versions of it did (I think model 3 performance purchased from release of that model to end of september 2018 did), and plenty of people got 1k to 5k of free supercharging miles for referral(s), so initial number of model 3s at superchargers doesnt = what happens when they have to pay. I know there are apartment / condo dwellers who have to supercharge, but I really wonder if that demographic is large from a "purchasing a tesla" point of view.

    Err \e apologies to OP for the OT posts I have made in this thread.
     
  20. TomLee

    TomLee Member

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    I agree with you. I have recently bought a SR+. Gov incentives boosted the sale for that particular model with more than 100/day delivery here in Vancouver, BC, Canada. As for the owner, we did get 7500km (1500km now) free and it will expire in 6 months. Will we use that "free" kms? Yes, of course. Will we congest the supercharge station? Probably not. Why? It does not worth to pay for supercharge if you don't do road trip. Few days ago there was a big discussion in the "Canada" sub forum when Tesla retracted all free kms from BC residents due to misinterpretation of a local law. Ppl compared pricing between supercharging and home charging. Results are 7500km supercharge roughly equals to CAD $300 compares to $100 charging at home. After all our 7500km (or 6 months if we didn't used them up) free supercharge is done, I'm not going to pay 3 or 4 times to charge in a supercharge station unless I'm doing a road trip. The convenience that superchargers brings to the Tesla owner is not comparable! I personally believe that's the biggest selling point of Tesla and that's why I finally choose it over other 300 to 400 km range EVs. I haven't thought through why ppl were saying to ban or cap SR+ in supercharge stations other than ego.
     

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