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V8.0 Autopilot prevented a rear-end collision

Wineborg

Member
Jul 2, 2016
60
126
PA
It happened last Friday afternoon when I drove to Pocono for the weekend. I was on Autopilot driving eastbound on I-78 (a 2-lane divided highway with grass median) near Allentown, a normal traffic flow at 65-70 mph on a 55mph zone. All of a sudden, my MX braked very hard with some rapid beeping sounds, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee in front of me swing to the grass median. My MX stopped less than 2 car length away from a Toyota in front and the Cherokee definitely would have hit the Toyota if it didn't go to the median. All these went so fast and I didn't have time to process what exactly happened until all came to stops.

It turned out traffic came to a complete stop because of an accident on the opposite direction of I-78, and Cherokee probably didn't notice the slow down traffic until the last minute. However, new V8.0 AP in MX spotted the Toyota infront of the Cherokee using radar and applied the hard brake. I really can't see Toyota at all until Cherokee was out of way. If I was driving, it will definitely be too late to apply the brake and I would have rear-ended the Toyota.

I just updated my MX to V8.0 the Friday before, and it worked flawlessly for me this time. Not sure what can happen if I was still on V7.1. Thanks Elon !!!
 

KaiserSoze

Member
Mar 27, 2016
191
123
USA
That's great!

Would this be properly classified as Autopilot or the Automatic Emergency Braking System (AEBS)? The latter is on all the time, even for cars with AP hardware but without the Autopilot option. However, at least on versions prior to 8.0, AEBS would slow the car but not bring it to a complete stop.
 
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K-MTG

Sunshade Captain of TMC
Oct 24, 2015
4,815
3,437
Irvine, CA
Would this work even if autopilot wasn't activated? I hope the media will report this (enough of the autopilot hate stories).
 

GoTslaGo

Learning Member
Dec 25, 2015
3,063
4,709
US
Would this work even if autopilot wasn't activated? I hope the media will report this (enough of the autopilot hate stories).

I would assume that if AutoPilot (TACC & AutoSteer) was not activated, then the driver is using the accelerator. Then theoretically the AEB would help increase the braking power of the car which the driver would have to activate.

Having driven with just TACC in heavy traffic, I would assume that the behavior would be the same as described by the OP.

I do not know if Tesla's without AP have just regular Cruise Control (non-TACC). Either way I doubt regular Cruise Control would stop in this scenario without driver input and braking. So the scenario falls back to AEB helping to increase braking power for the driver, I assume.

OP, Thanks for posting your experience!
 
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J1mbo

Active Member
Aug 20, 2013
1,574
1,363
UK
A non-AP car on cruise would have rear-ended the Toyota unless the driver was aware enough to follow the Cherokee.

I guess an AP car on 7.1 would have locked to the Cherokee and followed it onto the median?
 

Lesifass

Member
Oct 24, 2015
94
94
Germany
Cool :)

I usually try to keep enough distance so I can see the second next car in front of the car in front of me, in order to prevent something like this from killing me. That's not always possible though, so I'm looking forward to getting AP!
 
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Smokkelaar

Member
Mar 29, 2016
64
31
The Netherlands
It happened last Friday afternoon when I drove to Pocono for the weekend. I was on Autopilot driving eastbound on I-78 (a 2-lane divided highway with grass median) near Allentown, a normal traffic flow at 65-70 mph on a 55mph zone. All of a sudden, my MX braked very hard with some rapid beeping sounds, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee in front of me swing to the grass median. My MX stopped less than 2 car length away from a Toyota in front and the Cherokee definitely would have hit the Toyota if it didn't go to the median. All these went so fast and I didn't have time to process what exactly happened until all came to stops.

It turned out traffic came to a complete stop because of an accident on the opposite direction of I-78, and Cherokee probably didn't notice the slow down traffic until the last minute. However, new V8.0 AP in MX spotted the Toyota infront of the Cherokee using radar and applied the hard brake. I really can't see Toyota at all until Cherokee was out of way. If I was driving, it will definitely be too late to apply the brake and I would have rear-ended the Toyota.

I just updated my MX to V8.0 the Friday before, and it worked flawlessly for me this time. Not sure what can happen if I was still on V7.1. Thanks Elon !!!

Why stopped the Tesla 2 car lengths away from the Toyota? (5 meters?)
That space is missing now for the car behind the tesla.
I think it would be safer when the braking ends in just couple of cm from the Toyota, giving the cars behind more room to stop as well in time.

Im happy with the no damage result but i don't know this is the most optimal way for all the traffic around.
As car behind a MX i proppely don't have the same braking performance, so it would be nice if they have also space to break, that actually can be created by tesla in the same time.

Making the traffic for everybody a safer place and not only for tesla. :) but for everybody :).
 

JoaoD

Tech Enthusiast
Oct 17, 2016
350
685
Portugal, Porto
Why stopped the Tesla 2 car lengths away from the Toyota? (5 meters?)
That space is missing now for the car behind the tesla.
I think it would be safer when the braking ends in just couple of cm from the Toyota, giving the cars behind more room to stop as well in time.

Im happy with the no damage result but i don't know this is the most optimal way for all the traffic around.
As car behind a MX i proppely don't have the same braking performance, so it would be nice if they have also space to break, that actually can be created by tesla in the same time.

Making the traffic for everybody a safer place and not only for tesla. :) but for everybody :).

I don't know if autopilot or the safety system can detect that the car behind is gonna rear-end you and move forward, but in any case, if it did not give enough distance to the Toyota, if the Tesla was rear-ended it would cause a chain collision as the Tesla would probably rear-end the Toyota and so on.
 
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Lessmog

Active Member
Aug 24, 2013
2,626
6,550
Smögen
That's great!

Would this be properly classified as Autopilot or the Automatic Emergency Braking System (AEBS)? The latter is on all the time, even for cars with AP hardware but without the Autopilot option. However, at least on versions prior to 8.0, AEBS would slow the car but not bring it to a complete stop.
I believe this outcome is completely due to v.8.0 upgrade, which analyses the radar response to "see" under and beyond the vehicle directly in front. So that would be why AEBS could be applied before the driver could even see the braking Toyota.

Eat that, Germany! :D And call it whatever ... :rolleyes:
 

Rob Evans

Member
May 18, 2016
7
14
UK
Why stopped the Tesla 2 car lengths away from the Toyota? (5 meters?)
That space is missing now for the car behind the tesla.
I think it would be safer when the braking ends in just couple of cm from the Toyota, giving the cars behind more room to stop as well in time.

Im happy with the no damage result but i don't know this is the most optimal way for all the traffic around.
As car behind a MX i proppely don't have the same braking performance, so it would be nice if they have also space to break, that actually can be created by tesla in the same time.

Making the traffic for everybody a safer place and not only for tesla. :) but for everybody :).
People should always leave enough braking distance for their car. It isn't up to software to decide if the car behind has the braking capability. If the car behind doesn't have the braking capability it should be further away.

This is basic driving folks... leaving enough distance to stop in an emergency is the correct thing to do. It is poor driving style to tailgate or not leave enough braking distance. The fact that many people don't leave the space just means they are not very good drivers.
 

JoaoD

Tech Enthusiast
Oct 17, 2016
350
685
Portugal, Porto
It isn't up to software to decide if the car behind has the braking capability. If the car behind doesn't have the braking capability it should be further away.

I totally agree with you that space between cars is a must and you must leave more space the higher the speed you are travelling.
What I was asking is in the case that you have space in front of you, and there is a car coming behind you and it can't brake in time, will Tesla sensors detect this situation and drive your car forward?
It's just a curiosity, I'm not saying they should.
 

Rob Evans

Member
May 18, 2016
7
14
UK
I totally agree with you that space between cars is a must and you must leave more space the higher the speed you are travelling.
What I was asking is in the case that you have space in front of you, and there is a car coming behind you and it can't brake in time, will Tesla sensors detect this situation and drive your car forward?
It's just a curiosity, I'm not saying they should.
Ahh I see.. In that situation the car will not move. The sensors on the back of the car are ultrasonic and cannot respond fast enough. Even if it could respond it would have to floor the acceleration and risk potential whiplash of the occupants. Rear ending the Tesla would also risk whiplash but I cannot see any sensible option for the car.

As a software developer and someone who has a passing interest in machine learning, automated driving etc, I would never code a program that thinks it's ok to suddenly floor the accelerator. Imagine if it did that just as a pedestrian walked out (perhaps a dazed occupant of another vehicle?).

Until the sensors are good enough to track the movement of every object around the car in realtime there is no way to avoid a rear-end collision like the one you are describing, in my opinion.
 
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dnaDan

New Member
Oct 19, 2016
2
0
NZ
I believe this outcome is completely due to v.8.0 upgrade, which analyses the radar response to "see" under and beyond the vehicle directly in front. So that would be why AEBS could be applied before the driver could even see the braking Toyota.

Eat that, Germany! :D And call it whatever ... :rolleyes:
Logically, I would expect AEBS to kick in given the radar update with v8, presumably collision avoidance is applied to every tracked vehicle/object and this scenario seems a (relatively) trivial corollary programatically and computationally. I wonder if the MX stopped far short of the Toyota as it also tried to avoid the Grand Cherokee?

I like the idea of the Tesla stopping earlier than it needs (where applicable). I did this consistently on the M25 around London. The following driver should see the threat earlier because the distance is shorter and if reactions are too late to avoid collision, it provides the opportunity to maneuver appropriately. I really like the inferred idea that a Tesla could set its speed in a pile up situation to balance the impact forces on the front and rear of the car. That would surely reduce fatalities and injuries.
 

daroon

Member
Mar 8, 2016
36
48
Portland
What did you do during the time your car was beeping and as you saw the grand Cherokee ditch into the median, and as your hurtled towards the corolla? I know it happened fast, but surely you had time to respond. I don't ask to be snarky, I'm just curious whether or not you took over, or if you let the car perform on its own.

I've gotten the "beep beep beep" of an imminent collision before when not paying attention in stop and go traffic, and man, I was laying on that brake pedal immediately. I'm curios as to how you responded.
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,605
8,766
Palmdale, CA
Why stopped the Tesla 2 car lengths away from the Toyota? (5 meters?)
That space is missing now for the car behind the tesla.

Well, having been in a multi-car accident (where I was rear ended then driven forward into the stopped car in front of me), I prefer the extra space. Then if I do get rear ended by the guy behind, maybe I have enough sliding space to not rear end the car in front of me, reducing the overall damage. Odds are the few feet wouldn't give the guy in back enough time to not rear end me, but it might prevent a multi-car if he did.
 

Spidy

Active Member
Feb 7, 2015
1,364
1,035
EU
I would assume that if AutoPilot (TACC & AutoSteer) was not activated, then the driver is using the accelerator. Then theoretically the AEB would help increase the braking power of the car which the driver would have to activate.

Having driven with just TACC in heavy traffic, I would assume that the behavior would be the same as described by the OP.

I do not know if Tesla's without AP have just regular Cruise Control (non-TACC). Either way I doubt regular Cruise Control would stop in this scenario without driver input and braking. So the scenario falls back to AEB helping to increase braking power for the driver, I assume.

OP, Thanks for posting your experience!
AutoPilot = TACC, Autosteer, AEB, BLIS, Autopark etc.

Autosteer = Autosteer keeps the car in the current lane and engages Traffic-Aware Cruise Control

so no
Would this work even if autopilot wasn't activated? I hope the media will report this (enough of the autopilot hate stories).
If you disable all "Autopilot" functions under drive assistance systems it won't work. If you disable Autosteer it should still work.

:rolleyes:
 
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