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Vampire Drain is still a major downside after 5 years

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by widodh, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S 85 and 100D

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    In September 2013 I received my first S85 and ever since I've driven 250.000km (155,000 miles) on the ODO.

    5 years later, this September, I received my new S100D and my wife now drives the S85 from 2013.

    I still love both cars, but the Vampire Drain is still the thing which bugs me the most.

    My wife drives a lot less per week then I do, so we usually charge her car once per week. It charges to 340km on 90% and a couple of days later it's down to 328km of range.

    Yes, I'm aware of:

    - Power Saving settings
    - Not checking the car with the App
    - Always Connected checked Off

    But still, a Model S has a high vampire drain. Even my new 100D has a high vampire drain and looses a couple of KM per 24 hours.

    Imho this is still a major flaw in the design of a Tesla.

    We park these cars in a public parking garage with charging options, but we can't have them plugged in 24/7 as we share the chargers (22kW!) with other persons.

    A Lithium-Ion battery doesn't have a lot of self-discharge and other EVs do not seem to suffer the same problems.

    The computers inside a Model S/X/(3?) are the consumers here and keep draining the battery.

    Leaving a Model S/X parked somewhere for two weeks has a serious impact on the range and to me that's unacceptable.

    I do not think Tesla can fix these issues with software as it's probably a hardware issue, so I'll be stuck with it. But that doesn't make it less annoying.

    Are there other owners who see this as a major downside of owning a Tesla?
     
  2. TrebVs

    TrebVs Bert v Sas, Wemeldinge

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  3. widodh

    widodh Model S 85 and 100D

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    I didn't see that thread, so it seems that it's also happening with Model 3.
     
  4. milleron

    milleron Member

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    You're lucky that your loss is "a couple of Km." I lose 2-3 miles/day, and it's getting worse. Using Teslafi to try to make my car remain asleep, rather than just idle, a year ago, I often had phantom drain of less than 0.5 mi/day. Now, that's impossible. I can't imagine that the problem lies anywhere other than in one or more of the many software upgrades since those good ol' days. I calculate that phantom drain is now costing me US$6/month -- $72/yr. This loss used to be trivial. Now, it is not trivial. It's a problem that should be addressed.
     
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  5. TMeister

    TMeister Gearhead

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    No. Ok, funny moment done.

    I expect the car to consume energy when it just sits there. It's part of owning a Tesla. As others have pointed out and in all the vampire drain threads, this is normal behavior. Depends of course on what you are asking the car to do. Also, it would be beneficial for everyone to report drain in kWh lost, not miles of range.

    I leave mine in "normal" mode. Always connected, passive entry, cabin heat protection. I lose 1 kWh a day that way. I consider that just fine. When I used TeslaFi about a year ago, the drain was 5 kWh a day. I could never get the car to sleep using any of the methods described. So I don't use TeslaFi any more.

    After several days my car will go into deep sleep and will no longer respond to the phone app. I expect that too and so for me extended vacations don't impact my battery capacity. The most drain I've seen is 7 kWh in a 16 day idle period.

    Also, don't forget what is the actual cause of vampire drain. It is the 12v system and a weak 12v battery will consume more energy as the main battery and converter attempt to keep it charged. Take a look at all the threads on trickle charging the 12v battery for details.
     
  6. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Trickle charging the 12v doesn't sidestep the basic fact that the vehicle uses power when it's not being driven. Whether that power is stored in the HV or 12v batteries is irrelevant. It shouldn't use more power than other EVs when it isn't doing anything.
     
  7. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Tesla should implement a "Vacation Mode" that completely shuts down the car with the exception of one entry method that can be used with almost everything else completely powered off. Maybe use one hard button like the trunk release to wake up the car. TeslaBjorn had a recent video where someone went on vacation from Oslo to Las Vegas and after a week his Model X dropped from ~50% to 5%. That is completely unacceptable when the owner did everything they could in the settings to reduce the vampire drain.
     
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  8. N..8

    N..8 Member

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    The only way for this to be an ability would be for a manual on off switch. I've thought about this and they could put a button to be used for long away periods or those that wouldn't mind a 1 minute boot up screen.
     
  9. TMeister

    TMeister Gearhead

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    But it is doing stuff. And it's all 12v stuff. You can turn some of it off.

    Trickle charging is now necessary on any modern car. Try leaving an ICE car alone for 4 weeks and see how it does. I think it's a benefit that I have a huge battery sitting there to keep my 12v system running *without* having to plug in a trickle charger. I have to plug in my ICE vehicles if they will sit more than 2 weeks. My i3 also loses power "when it isn't doing anything". For my Tesla, ~40 watts is very minor. It costs me 10 cents a day (but really zero since I have excess power). I don't get why people are so distressed about a minor item like this.
     
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  10. animorph

    animorph Active Member

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    So has anyone tried the "Power Off" button from the center screen settings?
     
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  11. mswlogo

    mswlogo Active Member

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    2 km per 24 hr's. That's great !!

    12 km over 48 hr's after 5 years and 150,000 miles (when the "competitors" battery would be on a 2nd battery by then). Also great.

    Major problem. I don't think so.
     
  12. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Minor inconvenience at best. Consider using the power down function in the MCU if this really bothers you.
     
  13. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    The question comes down to whether a company should prioritize for someone who actual drives the car versus leaving it sitting.

    My understanding is the Model S already has a shutdown mode.

    ICE cars aren't immune to this either as I can't leave my MB Sprinter Van sitting in my driveway more than a week or two without running into an issue starting it. Their solution is to simply remove the lead from the battery. I got frustrated with it so I got a solar battery maintainer and I use that.

    It would be really cool if the Tesla has a battery maintainer solar panel for the windscreen.
     
  14. widodh

    widodh Model S 85 and 100D

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    Miles, Kilometers, Dollars, Euros, in the end it's all the same.

    I think that $6 per month is a lot. The car only has to be 'online' to listen for a keyfob and open the doors. Then it can boot all the other systems.

    Any modern car does this on a 12V battery, so can't a Model S or X? (or 3?).

    Are you sure you can't park a modern ICE for 4 weeks? I doubt it. My wife used to have a BMW Mini Cooper and it was sometimes parked for a couple of weeks without any problems.

    For me 40Watts continues draw is a lot. I wouldn't say it hurts me financially, but it's a lot of power.

    Any modern smartphone could do the work (computing power) needed to do what a Model S does while idle without drawing 40W of power. So why would a car?

    Yes, but I didn't notice a difference.

    A solar 12V battery maintainer would be very cool indeed. You could just leave the car parked without the 12V battery needing any charge of the HV pack (or very little).

    I know there will be some vampire drain, but personally I think it's currently very, very high on Tesla vehicles.

    Other EV's do not seem to have the same issues.
     
  15. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Personally I think Tesla’s glass is more than expensive enough. Turning a $1500 windshield or $3000 glass roof into parts that cost at LEAST twice as much, to solve the “problem” of a little battery drain while unplugged is a solution I’d happily opt out of.
     
  16. mswlogo

    mswlogo Active Member

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    #16 mswlogo, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    I think they were thinking of something you optionally put in place when the car sits for long periods. I think windshield solar panels exist. They would just need the proper hookup in the car to trickle the batterie(s).
     
  17. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I think you misunderstood.

    I wasn't arguing for turning the glass into transparent solar. That would pretty cool, but likely EXPENSIVE.

    But, I was simply saying there was likely a market for a large windshield length (like the reflective heat-shields) solar panel add on for a Tesla vehicles.

    I'm thinking of something like a direct solar charger input inside the vehicle. With my Van I simply plug the solar panel into the cigarette port as it goes directly to the battery. One can't do that in a Tesla as it goes to a DC-DC output.

    There is also likely a market for something much bigger. Imagine being able to park under a large solar canopy kind of thing. Where it wasn't just a battery maintainer, but could add miles.
     
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  18. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Obviously there are a few, and they're on this forum. For myself and I think the vast majority of owners, it's not a major downside nor is it even a minor downside. If this is what bothers you, you should be happy you don't have any important things to be concerned about.

    Chill out and just enjoy your Tesla. Or buy a different EV next time if it really bothers you this much, and see if the tradeoff for another brand's limitations is worth it.
     
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  20. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    Odds are this won't really get any better as the demand from owners is the other direction.

    Where we want our cars to do more things even when we're not in them.

    Pretty much the entire state of rob-u-fornia wants the Neural Network of the vehicle to watch out for the car while it's parked. Where the car is actively looking for threats and will make sounds/noises or just yell at someone who gets too close.

    Or at the very least they want the dash cams to be recording.

    In that state the cars have to defend themselves against the drug addicted zombies.
     
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