Vampire Drain - normal losses ?

[SSD420]

i didn't bother charging my 90D MX last night as it was pretty much full at 377km. It was not very hot nor cold last night. Temperatures were reasonable enough to keep my house windows open and the air conditioning off. I got home around 2am, so it's only been about 8 hours or so.

I just logged in through my app to see that I'm down to 352km. Is that typical to lose 25km in about 8 hours + ?

 

[cmd_keen]

SSD420,

Did you get a firmware update?
I noticed that each time an update takes place (overnight), I lose about 10 miles... 16km.

Otherwise, I was out of the country for two weeks and it only lost 3 miles. So 25km seems unusual unless maybe you have automatic pre-conditioning enabled?

 

[SSD420]

SSD420,

Did you get a firmware update?
I noticed that each time an update takes place (overnight), I lose about 10 miles... 16km.

Otherwise, I was out of the country for two weeks and it only lost 3 miles. So 25km seems unusual unless maybe you have automatic pre-conditioning enabled?

I did get a firmware update last week. It fixed some FWD issues I had.

Sounds like what Apple does each iOS update - makes our phones a slight bit slower.... Creating the need for us to buy a new faster phone.

 

[mf66]

Had to be an update. 3 miles in 5 days and counting. I assume seasons will make a big difference - little energy needed for batteries in summer.

Consider me impressed...

 

[SSD420]

If I know that I'm not going to be going out much tomorrow or not at all, should I bothers charging? I know they say "a charging Tesla, is a happy Tesla," but if I know I currently have Aprox 250km of range, is there a point? Or should I just change the charging range to lower than 90%?

 

[Macgaver]

I monitor my X very closely. Here my details:

 

[Colby Boles]

I'm having a hard time understanding why the car loses so much charge over a a few days while it is parked while not connected to the charger. Using teslalog.com I can see that I parked the car at 2016/07/18 12:26pm with 84kWh/215RM and picked the car up on 2016/07/21 11:15pm (~59 hrs later) with 70kWh/178RM. So that is a 14kWh/59h = 237W continuous drain equivalent. Is this normal? If I left the car to go backpacking for a week, I probably wouldn't be able to make it to a supercharger when I got back.

 

[SSD420]

I'm having a hard time understanding why the car loses so much charge over a a few days while it is parked while not connected to the charger. Using teslalog.com I can see that I parked the car at 2016/07/18 12:26pm with 84kWh/215RM and picked the car up on 2016/07/21 11:15pm (~59 hrs later) with 70kWh/178RM. So that is a 14kWh/59h = 237W continuous drain equivalent. Is this normal? If I left the car to go backpacking for a week, I probably wouldn't be able to make it to a supercharger when I got back.

I agree with you. It worries me

 

[Colby Boles]

I agree with you. It worries me

Are you experiencing the same drain rate? I'm trying to figure out if this is a particular problem with my car or it's just a poor power management strategy in general, where perhaps the car is waking to phone home too often. I know that when I leave it plugged in - and my office is right next to the car - it is doing little things quite often even though the mirrors are folded in and it is supposed to be "off". I'm sure the strategy is different when it is plugged in, but now I'm suspecting that it might be trying to do too much even when it is not.

Because of the drain when plugged in, I also get charging complete notices every day on my phone as it manages to get back to the target SOC again. Is this normal? It is starting to become TMI when it is not a charge cycle I initiated.

 

[Aljohn]

The "car" is always on in a background mode to varying degrees. The Key fob is "Bluetooth", so it is always active. The other background activity is connection via WiFi or LTE, which allows for Tesla Up-dates while the car is idle. It is how you track, summon, remote start, remote charge, change the temperature, etc. You can limit the amount of vampire losses by turning off the connection "always" in the settings when the X is parked for several days. Placing in the "range extend" mode may also reduce vampire losses. However, if you use the app, it will not readily connect to the X.

 

[Birdcar]

I have noticed similar vampire current with X90D lately. I used to query the car status every 10 minutes. the loss is about 10 rated miles/days. I back it down to 30 minutes, the loss is almost gone, i.e about 2 miles/day. Keep waking the car up does have a penalty. Can you change your update rate and verify ?

 

[msnow]

I have an a Model S but I'm sure they are similar.
Vampire loss is normal at about 1%-2% per day.
Check your Energy Savings settings. Mine is set to "on" and Always Connected. Below is from my cars manual but check yours. My vampire loss is just a couple of miles so if yours is abnormal notify Service.

"Saving Energy

Model S has an energy-saving feature that reduces the amount of energy being consumed when Model S is not in use. Touch Controls > Displays > Energy Saving and choose from the following options:

• OFF. Model S shifts to the energy-saving mode at night (10 pm to 5 am).
  
  
• ON. Signi cantly less energy is consumed whenever Model S is not in use. The start- up time of the instrument panel and Bluetooth could be slower.
  
  
• Always Connected. Preserves cell connectivity when energy saving is active. This allows the mobile app to connect to Model S more quickly, and provides immediate 3G internet access when entering the car. Slightly more energy is consumed."
  

 

[Colby Boles]

The "car" is always on in a background mode to varying degrees. The Key fob is "Bluetooth", so it is always active. The other background activity is connection via WiFi or LTE, which allows for Tesla Up-dates while the car is idle. It is how you track, summon, remote start, remote charge, change the temperature, etc. You can limit the amount of vampire losses by turning off the connection "always" in the settings when the X is parked for several days. Placing in the "range extend" mode may also reduce vampire losses. However, if you use the app, it will not readily connect to the X.

I get all that as I design similar types of systems for a living. Some use microwatts when on, some milliwatts, maybe a couple of watts if you have a powerful transmitter on briefly. None use considerable power for very long - sometimes only for milliseconds. I'm assuming there is a dedicated low power microcontroller to receive things like BLE door open signals as well as advertising for proximity. We are talking the equivalent of 237 watts *continuously* here. Some of that could be self-discharge of the battery, but this number seems really high unless a lot of electronics are powered up that do not need to be.

Thanks for the tips on how to reduce the consumption - I'll try those. My reference point here is that I also have a 2011 Nissan Leaf that doesn't seem to have a significant drain at all even though it is also reachable via 3G. This Model X is draining more than half of a Leaf battery in half of a a week while parked!

 

[vandacca]

I have noticed similar vampire current with X90D lately. I used to query the car status every 10 minutes. the loss is about 10 rated miles/days. I back it down to 30 minutes, the loss is almost gone, i.e about 2 miles/day. Keep waking the car up does have a penalty. Can you change your update rate and verify ?

@Birdcar, what configuration parameter are you referring to? Is it a TeslaLog.com query rate?

 

[Birdcar]

@Birdcar, what configuration parameter are you referring to? Is it a TeslaLog.com query rate?

I wrote my own script based on teslajason.py to query https://owner-api.teslamotors.com for car status. The script hit the server once every 10 minutes. Now it is once every 30 minutes.

I did not use teslaLog.com. But I believe the wake up mechanism is the same. how often did you log your car status ?

 

[vandacca]

I wrote my own script based on teslajason.py to query https://owner-api.teslamotors.com for car status. The script hit the server once every 10 minutes. Now it is once every 30 minutes.

I did not use teslaLog.com. But I believe the wake up mechanism is the same. how often did you log your car status ?

I'm not using teslalog.com just yet, but I was using the evtripplanner.com java client to share my car stats. I have since stopped running it to see if it makes any difference. I didn't see any way to config the polling for the Java client, but I didn't dig too deeply into the code either.

If/when I start using teslalog.com, I'll probably start with a 60 minute polling interval and monitor vampire drain.

 

[Birdcar]

I'm not using teslalog.com just yet, but I was using the evtripplanner.com java client to share my car stats. I have since stopped running it to see if it makes any difference. I didn't see any way to config the polling for the Java client, but I didn't dig too deeply into the code either.

If/when I start using teslalog.com, I'll probably start with a 60 minute polling interval and monitor vampire drain.

Are you using this page (EV Trip Planner ) to share your car status ? It seems to be using teslalog.com.

 

[Cruisin]

I'm having a hard time understanding why the car loses so much charge over a a few days while it is parked while not connected to the charger. Using teslalog.com I can see that I parked the car at 2016/07/18 12:26pm with 84kWh/215RM and picked the car up on 2016/07/21 11:15pm (~59 hrs later) with 70kWh/178RM. So that is a 14kWh/59h = 237W continuous drain equivalent. Is this normal? If I left the car to go backpacking for a week, I probably wouldn't be able to make it to a supercharger when I got back.

TeslaLog is causing the problem, don't let it keep tack of your car for a couple of days and compare your energy loss.

 

[Colby Boles]

The thing is, *I only started using it* to track down this problem! When I get the car back from service (air suspension failed, FWD sensor problems), I'll shut that back down again and see what difference it makes. Even before TeslaLog I was noticing significant drops in range after leaving the car unplugged for a couple of days, but I wasn't keeping good notes on what RM I was leaving the car at.

I should be able to just turn the communications off on the car and shut it down while still having the TeslaLog server trying to read from it (albeit unsuccessfully) right? That way I will still log the RM before shutdown and the RM after starting the car again?

As I mentioned in this post:

Anyone else had the air suspension fail?

The fact that my air compressor was cycling with some regularity might also have contributed to the drain problem.

TeslaLog is causing the problem, don't let it keep tack of your car for a couple of days and compare your energy loss.

 

[vandacca]

Are you using this page (EV Trip Planner ) to share your car status ? It seems to be using teslalog.com.

Yes, I was using that. Initial, unscientific analysis is that it seems to help reduce vampire drain. But I really need to collect better data before coming to any conclusions.