TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Vampire Losses - How Much?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by 2Cybers, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. 2Cybers

    2Cybers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Brookhaven, GA
    I will have to park Joules for 10 days in a location that charging power is not available (Vacation on a no car island, must park car in ferry terminal lot). The parking lot is about 93 miles from the nearest Supercharger. I know she will not be dead, but depending on how low she is, I may have issues returning to the Supercharger.

    I have a P85, with AutoPilot and 6.1 (2.2.92). I will have the Power Management System's Energy Saver turned "On" without "Always Connected". I understand not to peek with my iPhone app to check.

    If I have missed any other bases to lower the Vampire losses, let me know.

    What I asking is what level of loss should I plan for? I have seen a video in which Bjorn Nyland left his car an Oslo winter for 27 days and had an average loss of 2.3 miles per day. But given the date of the video and that he is in Norway, I am certain Bjorn had different firmware. I called the local Service Center today and was told losses would exceed 5 miles per day and could be up to 7 assuming I did not peek with the iPhone app. My gut tells me Tesla would have data on this, but trying to get that data is a mystery.

    If anyone has experiential data on vampire losses, I would really like to get it.
     
  2. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,062
    Location:
    Colorado
    I don't have anything useful to tell you about vampire losses under 6.1, but they're certainly more than 2.3 miles per day, in my limited experience.

    Is there no way to plug into even 110 while you're on-island?
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    I believe from my experience only that Vampire losses will be variable depending at least partly on the health of your 12V battery. The more internal resistance in the 12V, the more that the car has to wake up an top it off.
     
  4. tiblot

    tiblot Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Herndon, Virginia, United States
    I think in general if above 32 degrees, you'll lose about 2 miles / 12 hours or 4 miles / 24 hours.

    At around 10-20 degrees, you'll lose around 7-8 miles / 24 hours. In GA I wouldn't expect this, so my guess is you lose 4*10 = 40 miles.
     
  5. 2Cybers

    2Cybers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Brookhaven, GA
    Sorry folks I left out some information - The location I will be leaving the car is in Eastern North Carolina during the month of April. Weather will be temperate.

    Someone asked about 110 - there just is no power in/around the parking lot except to power gates. That said a shack exists which houses the parking lot attendant. The shack has 110, but it is a significant distance from the nearest parking place.
     
  6. tiblot

    tiblot Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Herndon, Virginia, United States
    I bet is on no more than 4 miles per day or 40 miles at most.
     
  7. Blu Zap

    Blu Zap Grinning member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    I lose 4 - 6 miles each day. NorCal temp in 50s in the garage this time of year. Max your charge at the Supercharger before your trip, follow the no phone app rules and you will be fine.
     
  8. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,247
    Location:
    EU
    So, you'll charge full (100%) at the nearest Supercharger? This would set you at about 265 range to be conservative. Remove 100 to get to the ferry, you're at 165 and even if you lost 5-6 miles a day for 10 days (and probably just 4ish), you would still have another 100+ to make it back to the supercharger. Seems safe enough as others have calculated.

    However, I guess the question not asked in this thread before is, is there a backup J1772 charger, RV park, something useful more closer to the parking place? This would give you the confidence to enjoy the vacation knowing that if unexpected losses happen, you could get some extra juice at the backup location to reach the supercharger without anxiety. If you return to the car and it shows less range remaining than you're comfortable with, for example if the drive to the ferry requires more juice than expected, then just visit the backup charger first.
     
  9. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    A couple of points - you can definitely drive slow on 74 and get ideal miles. Wilmington has several J1772s and it is probably 40 miles from the ferry (assuming Bald Head) and only 10 miles out of the way to Lumberton so that is a pretty good backup plan. Certainly lunch or other meal is possible in these areas. If you made a day trip to Wilmington, you might even skip Lumberton.

    Total crap that there isn't a good off mode for longer term parking.
     
  10. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,940
    Location:
    NoVA
    So, with the new FW update (the .113 flavor of 6.1), I've been testing out how I like the battery display as a percentage, rather than as a mileage range.

    Yesterday I noted that during the approximately 8 hours I had it parked at work during the day, my SOC dropped by 4%. This is with car sleep enabled (always connected = checked).

    Now the car got colder as it sat... so I don't know if that actually affects the SOC calculation itself, or simply affects the limitations in power & regen. (Colder batteries cannot deliver as much instantaneous power, and thus they are limited... but I'm unsure if that incurs a voltage drop that in turn lowers the SOC value. And if so, does that process reverse as the battery warms back up?)

    This is interesting, as it's not common for me to lose 8-10 miles while sitting at work. and in the winter that does indeed equate to about 3-4%. Should this extrapolate out, that's 12% per 24 hour day, or only about 8 days worth of sitting time before vampire losses would fully deplete the pack (should power down not kick in).
     
  11. 2Cybers

    2Cybers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Brookhaven, GA
    Regarding the quoted text,

    As any battery lowers in temperature the voltage it supplies drops. Since power equal voltage * Amps, clearly there is a range implication. But (and there always is a "but")as the battery warms up with use, so some energy is regained. I don't have a clue what Tesla uses to determine the value displayed on the dashboard - The simple approach is just use voltage since volatile also drops as the battery is discharged. But a more accurate result could be had by taking battery temperature into account when using battery voltage to generate a Rated Miles level.




    As has been suggested by David, AnxietyRanger and others, there are other charging options between the parking lot and the Lumberton Supercharger. I think the best RV option is the S&W RV Park on Holden Beach Rd in Shallotte. But any charging before a Supercharger will have an impact on my arrival at another RV campground between Charlotte, NC and Atlanta. I don't want to arrive after the park closes. What is most likely if I judge a problem exists would be a mid week return the the mainland and topping off at the residential HPWC which is less than 1 mile from the parking lot entrance.
     
  12. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,940
    Location:
    NoVA
    Yeah, that's the $64K question... is the SOC that is reported by the car "adjusted for temp" or is it the straight calculation ignoring environmental factors?

    My gut says it's the latter, as I recall hainvg less vampire losses when the temps were warmer.
     
  13. Polly Wog

    Polly Wog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Kihei, Hawaii
    I have an additional data point regarding vampire loss. I have a standard 85 that hasn't been driven for 15 days (I'm on travel), and I just checked it with the phone app for the first time since. It has lost a total of 37 miles of range, which is just under 2.5 miles loss per day.
     

Share This Page