Liz,
Just trying to figure out which number you are - ?2359 or 3259 if you are expecting your email this week........
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Various thoughts on Model S
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Liz,
Just trying to figure out which number you are - ?2359 or 3259 if you are expecting your email this week........
Liz G
P03056
Brian W and Contaygious: I have not confirmed that any significant number of charging stations have twin charge-level amperage. But I know they exist and am told here is one between NYC and Boston already. Not a big decision as twin chargers can be added later.
Vger
Active Member
Any of the 70A original TESLA/Clipper Creek stations installed all over CA and up and down I-5 (once converted to J1772, which is increasingly common), will use most of the capacity of a twin-charger-equipped Model S. Up here in Canada, a Canadian company, Sun Country Highways is busily putting such chargers in ALL OVER Canada, so there will be many available up here. The first wave of Level 2 chargers was sized for the anemic charger of the Leaf. But as more Model S's get out there, I think the pressure will build for higher capacity Level 2 chargers. So personally, I think twin chargers is a good investment.
Helpful to know that Tesla has already installed 70Amp Charging Stations. It appears to me that, in stepping down to a 60kWh battery, I can offset the added range concern by speeding up my POTENTIAL charge rate - home or away - whenever possible. I recognize from Roadster forums that the range anxiety thing evaporates after a few months of ownership, but nice to have that potential Twin Charge in the back pocket, so to speak. As noted, twin Chargers can be added later, post delivery (at a cost), per Tesla CA and NY, so not critical in the up front configuration.
Looking over the Design Site now they have again changed what is said about the 60kWh battery: this clarifies what I had hoped!
For the 60kWh battery:
Supercharge Hardware
Equip your Model S with the hardware and software needed to use Tesla Superchargers in the future. Included
Sounds like the heard the alarm of others who, like me, felt mildly abused by having the hardware but not the software...or is the software still not enabled...?
Edit: Spoke with Tesla CA today again - appears there will be a charge - perhaps a subscription - for Supercharge users. Not determined yet. Supercharge announcement in September may include more info...
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This aligns with what I had guessed months ago. Good to see they went the route of "85 benefit is saving on usage cost" rather than "85 benefit is more technology in the vehicle" (with respect to Supercharging).
To 60 purchasers, the difference may not matter. But from an engineering and vehicle physical value perspective, it's the high road.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
A subscription would not be good at all, given how infrequently most people would use it. (I might have to supercharge once or twice a year. Having to pay a monthly or annual fee which likely wouldn't be worth it would peeve me off. I'd definitely prefer a pay-per-use system. I think that would help with sales and EV adoption.
Did you get the impression that the fee would only be for 60 kWh owners (ie free for 85 kWh owners) or that it would be a fee for all users?
Agreed, Todd -- a pay-per-use system needs to be an option. It would seem rare (and ill-advised) to be a regular user of Superchargers.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
On the other hand Tesla may need a guaranteed level of income to support the build out of the super charger network. It might come down to a monthly subscription at one price level or a per use charge at a much much higher level to cover the costs.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Todd, I had had the impression with my first call that this was to be imposed on only 60kWh users, but my second call's specialist suggested all users would be charged for Supercharge use, whatever the cost structure. I am not confident anyone knows, except The Board. Brian in response to your note [This aligns with what I had guessed months ago. Good to see they went the route of "85 benefit is saving on usage cost" rather than "85 benefit is more technology in the vehicle" (with respect to Supercharging).], I am not totally sure what you mean - comment would be welcome.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I was under the impression that the relatively small cost of building out the network would bring a lot of bang for the buck. Since the charger's proprietary to Tesla, the more superchargers they have, the more potential customers will see range anxiety as less of an issue, and the more cars Tesla will sell. Seems to me it also benefits Tesla from a public relations standpoint, especially given the talk of solar panels and the idea of generating clean transportation energy.
I think we calculated in another thread that a nationwide network in the US could be established for about $10-$20M. That seems a relatively small cost in the grand scheme of things given the benefits. Given gross margins and an estimated selling price of the car, that would be about 600 Model S's to pay for the nationwide network. If Elon mentioned they can get cash-flow positive at 8,000 cars, it seems Tesla has the ability to build out a decent, nationwide, nearly free network relatively quickly.
Edit: Not to mention if they can sell power back to the grid with the solar panels. (Although granted, with solar panels, this estimated cost is probably a little low).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Problem is with a free supercharging network people would be tempted to use it more than really necessary, tying up superchargers and putting battery packs through more abuse. I'd think they have to charge something just to discourage needless supercharger use. In truth it's probably in Tesla's best interest overall to have as few people actually use the supercharger network as possible.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I agree. It needs to be like a health insurance deductible. Some small amount to discourage abuse. That's why I think it should be per-use, and very inexpensive (no more than charging at home would cost).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Except it's much more valuable than home charging when you need it, so I'd expect it to be priced accordingly.
Hi Todd,
I agree that there should definately be a fee for Supercharging, but Superchargers will be generating large demand charges during on-peak times. It would be unrealistic to expect to pay the same as charging at home. I think it is likely that Tesla will attempt to mitigate the demand charges by using photovoltaic arrays with battery storage, but it is still doubtful that all demand charges could be avoided, especially with a Supercharger that has lots of daily customers.
Larry
NigelM
Recovering Member
Guys, just a heads-up that we have a whole thread on paying for Supercharging as well as others on the general subject:
What-s-a-fair-price-for-the-supercharging-option
Tesla-Supercharger-network
Suggested-Supercharger-Locations
FWIW, I suspect that superchargers will get less use than most people expect. I subscribe to DavidM's implied point here and believe that although we need a network of Superchargers to assuage range-anxiety and change general thinking, few of us will use them very often.
What-s-a-fair-price-for-the-supercharging-option
Tesla-Supercharger-network
Suggested-Supercharger-Locations
FWIW, I suspect that superchargers will get less use than most people expect. I subscribe to DavidM's implied point here and believe that although we need a network of Superchargers to assuage range-anxiety and change general thinking, few of us will use them very often.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I agree. For most, long drives just aren't that common. It'll probably be 5-10 years before most of us see any sort of high demand for superchargers, although they're needed now for those rare occasions.
And Nigel, yes there are other threads...but after all, this thread is "Various thoughts on Model S". I guess this thread is turning into a mishmash of randomness and we ought to dissect this thread and organize its various pieces into other threads...
..not it!
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