Veganism/Leather etc. out of Market Action

[TSLA Pilot]

Take the holier-than-though vegetarian/vegan conversation elsewhere. This thread is about the coronavirus.

Uh oh.

Looks like we need some "Clue Issue."

Guess where Coronavirus came from . . . animals in a market in China.

Guess what? There are many still open across Asia, according to this 60 Minutes episode from Sunday:

Please try to become better informed going forward, and adopt a plant-based lifestyle if your mind is sufficiently open.

 

[powertoold]

Guess where Coronavirus came from . . . animals in a market in China.

Guess what? There are many still open across Asia, according to this 60 Minutes episode from Sunday:

The problem isn't eating meat in general. The coronavirus seems to have originated from exotic animal trade / eating. That's what they tell us anyway. So please don't continue on your meat eating train.

 

[jerry33]

The problem isn't eating meat in general. The coronavirus seems to have originated from exotic animal trade / eating. That's what they tell us anyway.

Because trading in wild animals is illegal, they are in filthy conditions--just ripe for this kind of viral transfer.

 

[bkp_duke]

Uh oh.

Looks like we need some "Clue Issue."

Guess where Coronavirus came from . . . animals in a market in China.

Guess what? There are many still open across Asia, according to this 60 Minutes episode from Sunday:

Please try to become better informed going forward, and adopt a plant-based lifestyle if your mind is sufficiently open.

I'm a physician, and have a Ph.D. in molecular biology in the study of metabolism. So perhaps there are people here more knowledgeable than you. Just food for thought there.

The FACT is that humans are omnivores, not carnivores, not herbivores. We are designed/evolved to be opportunistic eaters, whether that be vegetables or animal products.

Corona, Ebola, etc. are viruses that ALL have animal reservoirs. There is a high probability of transmission, even if we are not eating the animals. So your attempt to one-to-one associate this virus as a problem that would not have happened if we weren't all eating meat is flawed from the start.

Perhaps you should be better informed before you come into a thread and self-proclaim yourself to be the most knowledgeable of people.


Oh, and just for spite - I'm going out and having a filet mignon tonight. Hadn't planned on it, but you rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

The FACT is that humans are omnivores, not carnivores, not herbivores. We are designed/evolved to be opportunistic eaters, whether that be vegetables or animal products.

Hmm. I see. Then we'll have to assume that Stanford Medical School graduate Dr. Milton Mills is a quack, as are the hundreds of other doctors screaming the same thoughts to any that will have open ears and minds?

http://adaptt.org/archive/Mills The Comparative Anatomy of Eating1.pdf

I get it. You, like me, were raised to believe that murdering animals and eating them was necessary, natural and normal.

That's a bummer because our parents lied, not out of malice, but out of profound ignorance.

The intelligent among us will learn what they do not know, and then act accordingly.

For far too many, perhaps you as well, the mindset is akin to those of the millions that were smoking in the 60's, and especially among those that should have known better. Despite thousands of peer-reviewed scientific papers correlating tobacco use with literally dozens of serious medical problems and morbidity, it still took years for the US Surgeon General's committee to act, and even then the first warnings were difficult to get posted on cigarette packs.

Why?

Because so many smoked, to include nearly all of the doctors on the Surgeon General's advisory committee.

Fast forward to 2020: despite thousands of peer-reviewed scientific papers correlating animal consumption with literally dozens of serious medical problems and morbidity, look what we have in the posts above, especially from those that ostensibly should know better . . . .

Amazing.

Source:

HOW NOT TO DIE: The Role of Diet in Preventing, Arresting, & Reversing Our Top 15 Killers | NutritionFacts.org

Or, the TL;DR version for those with limited attention spans:

How Not to Die: An Animated Summary | NutritionFacts.org

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Is GGR a moderator here? If so, he/she should report as such in direct PM's to me but did not do so.

It looks like he/she has a pretty thin skin, and may also be a meat addict?

Sadly, in an era when facts should matter more than ever, we have someone trying to "kill the messenger" by threatening to suspend my posting.

This is the full message I had in my mail folder--amazing that posting facts is now considered "abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll."

Those that thought we should have slavery, or ensure women have no rights, etc., did the same things in their eras.

Posting information and concepts that are foreign or not widely known is now grounds for being removed from TMC? I get it: we are often attacked and ostracized. It is beyond sad that it still occurs here in 2020, in what we should consider as an "enlightened space" among those that own or support Tesla. We can only assume an open mind can also remain quite limited, at least among those that moderate TMC forums, or is GGR just posing as a moderator?

This is a key element of Coronavirus, a root-cause, with massive impacts to a young company like Tesla . . . and yet I am threatened for posting links and facts that are "abusive?"

Wow.

***************************************************

TSLA Pilot,

Your actions in this message (Coronavirus) are not appropriate:
↑
The problem isn't eating meat in general. The coronavirus seems to have originated from exotic animal trade / eating. That's what they tell us anyway. So please don't continue on your meat eating train.
Actually, you've got it wrong.

The coronavirus pandemic would not exist but for the "eating meat in general."

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

It's only the tip of the iceberg of problems caused by killing and eating the other beings with whom we share our planet. (It's sort of an expected outcome when you look at the virus-like growth of humans on Earth, eh? Or does that hit too close to home?)

Sources:

The Amazon is burning because the world eats so much meat - CNN

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
--Winston Churchill



We cannot allow users to be abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll". This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site.

 

[ohmman]

Is GGR a moderator here? If so, he/she should report as such in direct PM's to me but did not do so.

It looks like he/she has a pretty thin skin, and may also be a meat addict?

Sadly, in an era when facts should matter more than ever, we have someone trying to "kill the messenger" by threatening to suspend my posting.

This is the full message I had in my mail folder--amazing that posting facts is now considered "abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll."

Those that thought we should have slavery, or ensure women have no rights, etc., did the same things in their eras.

Posting information and concepts that are foreign or not widely known is now grounds for being removed from TMC? I get it: we are often attacked and ostracized. It is beyond sad that it still occurs here in 2020, in what we should consider as an "enlightened space" among those that own or support Tesla. We can only assume an open mind can also remain quite limited, at least among those that moderate TMC forums, or is GGR just posing as a moderator?

This is a key element of Coronavirus, a root-cause, with massive impacts to a young company like Tesla . . . and yet I am threatened for posting links and facts that are "abusive?"

Wow.

***************************************************

TSLA Pilot,

Your actions in this message (Coronavirus) are not appropriate:
↑
The problem isn't eating meat in general. The coronavirus seems to have originated from exotic animal trade / eating. That's what they tell us anyway. So please don't continue on your meat eating train.
Actually, you've got it wrong.

The coronavirus pandemic would not exist but for the "eating meat in general."

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

It's only the tip of the iceberg of problems caused by killing and eating the other beings with whom we share our planet. (It's sort of an expected outcome when you look at the virus-like growth of humans on Earth, eh? Or does that hit too close to home?)

Sources:

The Amazon is burning because the world eats so much meat - CNN

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
--Winston Churchill



We cannot allow users to be abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll". This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site.

Just a heads up; that message is boilerplate from the software when someone tags a message with a warning. It wasn't penned by @ggr, just generated automatically based on warning action he took.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Hmm. I see. Then we'll have to assume that Stanford Medical School graduate Dr. Milton Mills is a quack, as are the hundreds of other doctors screaming the same thoughts to any that will have open ears and minds?

http://adaptt.org/archive/Mills The Comparative Anatomy of Eating1.pdf

I get it. You, like me, were raised to believe that murdering animals and eating them was necessary, natural and normal.

That's a bummer because our parents lied, not out of malice, but out of profound ignorance.

The intelligent among us will learn what they do not know, and then act accordingly.

For far too many, perhaps you as well, the mindset is akin to those of the millions that were smoking in the 60's, and especially among those that should have known better. Despite thousands of peer-reviewed scientific papers correlating tobacco use with literally dozens of serious medical problems and morbidity, it still took years for the US Surgeon General's committee to act, and even then the first warnings were difficult to get posted on cigarette packs.

Why?

Because so many smoked, to include nearly all of the doctors on the Surgeon General's advisory committee.

Fast forward to 2020: despite thousands of peer-reviewed scientific papers correlating animal consumption with literally dozens of serious medical problems and morbidity, look what we have in the posts above, especially from those that ostensibly should know better . . . .

Amazing.

Source:

HOW NOT TO DIE: The Role of Diet in Preventing, Arresting, & Reversing Our Top 15 Killers | NutritionFacts.org

Or, the TL;DR version for those with limited attention spans:

How Not to Die: An Animated Summary | NutritionFacts.org

I have no idea who's right or wrong, but I am confused by this question: So if we aren't suppose to eat meat, why do SO many other animals eat meat? Are they wrong as well? Should we tell them?

It's just like evolution. I'm told that in 500,000 years, we evolved from an ape to a rational, civilized human beings (ok, somewhat civilized), yet the dinosaurs, in about 127 million years, evolved into.......dinosaurs.

 

[guidooo]

So if we aren't suppose to eat meat, why do SO many other animals eat meat? Are they wrong as well?

They evolved into that to maintain some sort of balance within an ecosystem. Without any predator a likely outcome would be that the animals would multiply and eat all the plants they can eat before the plants can regrow themselves. This results in a die off in the animal population since they cann't feed themselves. Plants can start growing again, if lucky rabbit or deer survived and multiply again, but in the end the world is more barren then it could be. Somehow nature found it grows better with predators and made it that way. A meat eating animal in nature keeps the herbivore population in check. Both quantitative and qualitative since catching an animal willing to survive might be difficult, when a predator has a choice they take the easier to catch/less healthy ones.

https://www.livescience.com/4171-top-predators-key-ecosystem-survival-study-shows.html

Should we tell them?

In nature their is no need, since the number of predators is a function of the available food supply in their ecosystem. e.g. the amount of fish in the ocean dictates the number of sharks or dolphins that can be found and not the other way around.

I have no idea who's right or wrong

For an individual in western society that seems mostly a question of ethics and personal preference. We have the choice to eat meat or not. Humans can live on a healthy diet with or without animal products (not sure about factory meat or natural meat grown in polluted areas, but let's give it the benefit of doubt). For humanity as a whole, meat consumption places a huge footprint on our planet, which in my opinion we cannot afford. And that's besides the animals suffering on a day to day basis to keep the supermarkets filled up with meat.