Veganism/Leather etc. out of Market Action

[Tslynk67]

Also worth noting that we have an epidemic of obesity and T2DM in all societies that have adopted the western processed diet. It's now becoming clear that root cause is sugars, seed-oils and processed carbohydrates. Remove these from the diet and emphasize low-carb vegetables, quality protein and plenty of good fats. Most modern chronic disease can be reversed without medication.

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2234

 

[JRP3]

emphasize low-carb vegetables

Wait, what? Eating plants? Crazy talk I tell ya

 

[Tslynk67]

Wait, what? Eating plants? Crazy talk I tell ya

well keep off the tubers is the main point...

New study just out: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqy075/5036105

 

[JRP3]

well keep off the tubers is the main point...

Not supported by the traditional Okinawan diet of course.

New study just out: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqy075/5036105

Small study, and:

WWC's relationships over the past 2 y include grant funding to support other research projects unrelated to the research presented in this article and/or travel reimbursements to scientific meetings from the Beef Checkoff, Pork Checkoff, National Dairy Council, North Dakota Beef Commission, American Egg Board–Egg Nutrition Center, and Barilla International. WWC also served on the 2015 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee and was a member of the Advisory Council on Nutrition and Healthy Food Choices, Foundation for Food and Agriculture Research. DP-J's relationships over the past 2 y include grant funding to support other research projects unrelated to the research presented in this article and/or travel reimbursements or honoraria from American Egg Board–Egg Nutrition Center, Leprino Foods, National Dairy Council, National Cattlemen's Beef Association, and US Dairy Export Council. DP-J also participates on scientific advisory panels. LEO and AJW declare no disclosures. None of the other authors report a conflict of interest related to research presented in this article.

Really? Because I see a huge conflict of interest.

 

[Tslynk67]

Not supported by the traditional Okinawan diet of course.



Small study, and:



Really? Because I see a huge conflict of interest.

You're absolutely right with that CoI. Doesn't mean it's not a correct study, but needs a healthy dose of skepticism...

Okinawans ate a lot of pork, BTW. And of course carrots, per-se, aren't going to give you T2DM, but when you have T2DM then you best avoid.

 

[JRP3]

Okinawans ate a lot of pork, BTW.

By "a lot" you mean less than 2%?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-buettner/okinawa-blue-zone_b_7012042.html

And of course carrots, per-se, aren't going to give you T2DM, but when you have T2DM then you best avoid.

And by "carrots" you mean sweet potatoes?

 

[Tslynk67]

https://www.oki-islandguide.com/cuisine/pork-culture

No, I meant carrots - of course they're not tubers, but I meant carrots.

 

[JRP3]

https://www.oki-islandguide.com/cuisine/pork-culture

Yes, modern Okinawan diet includes a lot of pork. Modern Okinawans are not as healthy as their ancestors and don't eat the diet I linked above.

 

[oneday]

Is it just me, or does this thread kind of feel like we are debating politics? Who knew nutrition could be so polarizing.

 

[renim]

>JRP3
Okinawa is also the kingdom of Ryuku, they are great pork eaters, the porkers of japan (so to speak)
when they were an 'independant' kingdom, they entertained their Chinese visitors with a feast (over 250 days) with 5,000 pigs
Pig in Japan: the nation's most popular meat | The Japan Times
"And in Ryukyu (present-day Okinawa), pork was eaten enthusiastically, especially after a visit in 1713 by Chinese officials who demanded so much pork (5,000 pigs in 250 days) that the Ryukyu court was forced to import some from Kyushu."

Under US occupation, Okinawa was very poor, even so, they would use lard to cook their food, and flavour it with a traditional little anchovy style fish. so yes, they at a high carb diet that was low in grains and used animal fat daily along with a little fish.

Traditionally, Okinawan family would slaughter a pig for a new year (wa-kurushi) and eat it oink to tail over the following year.

 

[JRP3]

>JRP3
Okinawa is also the kingdom of Ryuku, they are great pork eaters, the porkers of japan (so to speak)
when they were an 'independant' kingdom, they entertained their Chinese visitors with a feast (over 250 days) with 5,000 pigs
Pig in Japan: the nation's most popular meat | The Japan Times
"And in Ryukyu (present-day Okinawa), pork was eaten enthusiastically, especially after a visit in 1713 by Chinese officials who demanded so much pork (5,000 pigs in 250 days) that the Ryukyu court was forced to import some from Kyushu."

I don't think you can extrapolate the diet of a general population from the feasts of the ruling class when entertaining visitors.

Traditionally, Okinawan family would slaughter a pig for a new year (wa-kurushi) and eat it oink to tail over the following year.

Yes, and from your article not all of it was used as food, and your article seems to suggest that after the new years feasting small amounts of pork were eaten the rest of the year, obviously so if a whole family were feeding off it for a year.

 

[JRP3]

Aguu pig are less than half the size of western pigs and weigh around 220lbs Native hog extinct? In a pig's eye! | Stripes Okinawa
That would work out to about 4.5 ounces of meat a day for a whole year for a family, referencing this source Pork Processing %. This Chart shows approximately how many pounds and what percentages of  each cut of pork you can expect from a hog. , not accounting for a larger portion eaten around new years which would leave even less for daily consumption the rest of the year. A family of 4 might get an ounce of pork each day.

 

[Tslynk67]

Is it just me, or does this thread kind of feel like we are debating politics? Who knew nutrition could be so polarizing.

Yes, it has become quite boring actually...

All I can say is read all you can and try out different things for yourself. If you insist on being vegan, supplement Vit A, B12, D and DHA/EPA.

 

[JRP3]

And if you insist on eating only meat get your colonoscopies done regularly, check your cholesterol, and watch out for gout, parasites, ecoli, and maybe scurvy

Personally I found the discussion to be interesting.

 

[neroden]

My bottom line is that fructans and oligosaccharides, along with a wide variety of beneficial bacteria, are essential. Cultivate your microbiome, or you'll regret it.

 

[Tslynk67]

And if you insist on eating only meat get your colonoscopies done regularly, check your cholesterol, and watch out for gout, parasites, ecoli, and maybe scurvy

Personally I found the discussion to be interesting.

E-coli is coming mostly from salads these days... Meat is actually quite sterile if handled correctly.

You don't get scurvy if you eat fresh meat as it contains vitamin C. Also, if you don't erat sugar then you need very little vit C.

Parasites is always a possibility, especially with raw meats, I accept that.

Why would I need a colonoscopy?

I did get gout about 8 years ago, it was when I lost a lot of weight (I've always had quite high uric acid) by going Paleo, nothing since then.

My cholesterol is very good great - although I'm sure you'll start harping-on about it being too high. You do know, I guess, that serum cholesterol has little, or no, relation to ingested cholesterol:

Triglycerides 65
Cholesterol total 386
Cholesterol HDL 72
Cholesterol LDL (calcule) 301
Indice atherogenique 5.36
Apoiipoproteine A1 1.88
Apolipoproteine B 1.83

 

[Tslynk67]

This might interest some of you

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Going vegan can indeed give some short term benefits as it often means going from a processed "food" diet to better choices, as well as other beneficial changes in lifestyle, such as better sleep and more exercise.

However, longer term, vegan does not provide all the nutrition humans need - you'll get by for several years, but eventually become very sick unless you supplement. If you can bring yourselves to eat some fish a couple of times a week then that's a great choice, otherwise get the right pills to cover the gap: Why You Should Think Twice About Vegetarian and Vegan Diets

Watch The Magic Pill, it's on Netflix.

Oh my, someone who appears to be unqualified to offer advice advises that one "will become very sick unless you supplement?"

Wow. That's a bit of a misleading statement, perhaps meant to scare thinking people off of a plant-based lifestyle perhaps?

The truth is that because our plants and fruit are too clean, we don't get enough B12 (which would normally be found in the dirt attached to our fruit and veggies).

But we clean our fruit and veggies--which is FINE.

So the right call is to take a B12 supplement, and that is all.

As for getting sick on whole-food, plant-based lifestyle, try again: the evidence is massive. The more plants eaten, the longer one will live, AND the healthier one will be. The peer-reviewed facts are quite clear; watch them in the video below, How Not to Die:

HOW NOT TO DIE: The Role of Diet in Preventing, Arresting, & Reversing Our Top 15 Killers | NutritionFacts.org

Or, just read Dr. Milton Mills's (Stanford Med School Grad and practicing physician) summary in the Comparative Anatomy of Eating which compares your body's systems to herbivores, omnivores and carnivores:

http://www.adaptt.org/documents/Mills The Comparative Anatomy of Eating1.pdf

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Meat is actually quite sterile if handled correctly.

OMG, please forgive my disgust with this supposed "fact" but with this falsehood you must be an animal-industry shill, or otherwise profit from this misinformation?

You really need to watch the video presentation/summary of How Not to Die as your statement is grossly incorrect--the contamination occurs before the meat is even touched . . . .

 

[Tslynk67]

OMG, please forgive my disgust with this supposed "fact" but with this falsehood you must be an animal-industry shill, or otherwise profit from this misinformation?

You really need to watch the video presentation/summary of How Not to Die as your statement is grossly incorrect--the contamination occurs before the meat is even touched . . . .

How dare you! You obviously haven't read the whole thread, so please keep you repugnant judgements to yourself.