Vehicle fraudulently transferred out of account without permission

[MP3Mike]

Whoa party people... slow it down here. Are you saying that with a VIN and some fake docs, Tesla will move a vehicle to anyone's account?

Yep.

Wouldn't the Bill of Sale include the seller's information?

The car could have gone through multiple seller's before getting to the "current" owner. So the bill of sale might not reflect the prior owner Tesla knew about.

This seems to lack even cursory fraud protection. I'm having a hard time believing that the process Tesla came up with let's the gaining party take a vehicle without the losing party's permission.

What fraud prevention step would you implement? The only thing I can think of is having a service center manager inspect the physical documents. (Which Tesla is trying to do it all online.)

At this point, what's left for the thief to do? Just order some key cards and come pickup their car?

They don't need to order key cards, the vehicle is in their app. They can unlock and start it remotely. (And the real owner can't turn off mobile access because they no longer have the email address and password for the account that the vehicle is in.)

 

[EasternSP]

This is really fantastic. I have 17 Teslas so far and should have three more on my Tesla account by tomorrow afternoon.
Actually, this is quite a disaster for any owner to find their property has been taken by someone else and all protection and justice is afforded the theif.
I just recently bought my Y model and since I placed the order almost a year ago, I haven't been able to talk to anyone at Tesla until the day I went to pick it up. Quite a troublesome business model.

 

[snorp]

When I purchased my M3 from a private party, I had to change the name of my vehicle to a specific name displayed in the app prior to ownership transferring to my account. Seems pretty foolproof since a person would have to be in physical possession of the vehicle. Are you saying that step was somehow bypassed?

 

[father_of_6]

take the car, and your title, to a local service center where a manager can look at the physical documents to verify authenticity and get it straightened out

Yeah, this is what I would do.

 

[MP3Mike]

@Naonak if your Tesla doesn't have free Supercharging, can you still Supercharge? (Do they have a credit card linked to the account that will get billed for your charging?)

 

[SilverString]

Irritating for sure. Not familiar with the procedures in Kansas, but in Texas if there are no changes to the title information, $5 and a valid state issued DL or ID will get the listed owner a new fully negotiable replacement title on the spot at any number of state DMV locations. Here the replacements are red (originals are blue), dated, and supersede the original. Lost title replacements are typically much easier than transfers. Surely Kansas provides a lost title procedure? Is this an option?

 

[Droschke]

Tesla Website , under "To add a vehicle from your Tesla Account" says:

1) If you do not already have one, create a Tesla Account.
2) Sign in to your Tesla Account.
3) At the bottom of your Dashboard, find ‘Purchased a car from a third-party?’
4) Select ‘Add.’
5) Complete the form and submit your ownership documents, such as your driver's license, title, registration and VIN number.
6) Once your form is submitted, follow the steps on your screen to rename your car to the secret code.
7) If your VIN is eligible for instant transfer, then you will automatically be granted ownership. Most requests will require the previous owner to confirm the request. Tesla will contact them directly for a confirmation. If the previous owner does not take action, Tesla will review your documents to confirm ownership.

This process is through the Tesla website (not via app).

Step #6 is not clear to me. Do you need to:

A) Rename the car while logged into the account and do the renaming on the website
OR
B) Rename the car on the car's center display while you are inside the car (have physical possession)
???

 

[MP3Mike]

Step #6 is not clear to me. Do you need to:

A) Rename the car while logged into the account and do the renaming on the website
OR
B) Rename the car on the car's center display while you are inside the car (have physical possession)
???

B.

 

[Droschke]

If it's B, then how did the fake "purchaser" complete step#6 without having possession of the OP's car?

 

[CyberGus]

I don't think it is identity theft. It sounds like they submitted fake documents to claim ownership. (Or the VIN on their documents got messed up, but that seems unlikely since it contains a check digit.)

Guessing the correct check digit is unlikely, but not un-possible.

 

[CyberGus]

I believe that the "thief" in this case is actually a victim as well. The real thief posted a "TESLA, CHEAP!" ad and sold the car online after somehow getting the VIN. So the Bill of Sale might be legitimate, but the "seller" is the real scammer (undoubtedly using false credentials).

I guess you could always fill the car the Apple Tags, park it at the mall, and see where it goes

 

[CyberGus]

They can create fake title/registration documents as easily as they can create a fake bill of sale... (You can't verify watermarks/etc. on a picture of a document.)

True, BUT a valid title will have a Serial Number, which can then be verified with the State. (I'm assuming the thief didn't actually hack the DMV database lol)

 

[demundus]

Everyone here needs to keep in mind (newer vs older owners) that there used to ONLY be a manual submission of a form to an email address or local service center to initiate a transfer of ownership within Tesla's system, which was then reflected in the app. I haven't used the app in years, but it sounds like they automated that process (as 3rd party sales ramped up over the years) and made it seamless.

It is Tesla, not the OP who has been phished.

 

[Droschke]

I think the key question is how the "purchaser" renamed the @Naonak 's car without having physical possession of it?

 

[cbdream99]

This is ridiculous. Tesla is so disorganized, no one knows anything, and who knows how long they keep the transfer documents or even have a way to retrieve them before they are deleted!! If @Naonak can find someone within Tesla to vouch for you then it will be easier to resolve, maybe a manager in SC, but it is still hard though unlike traditional dealerships that can recognize you. Tesla's turnover is so high and you seldom visit there, it will be hard for someone just walks up with a car and a piece of paper and then immediately vouches for you. Getting media attention, filing a report to the police or the FBI, hire a lawyer can put pressure on Tesla to work on it. This definitely exposes the weakness of Tesla.

 

[AtH2O]

I would send an email to your State Attoney General. This is the kind of situation they should respond to. And, assuming it is the same in your state, any company is required by law to respond to a request from the Attorney General. I am sure they can get Tesla's attention for you. Good luck!

 

[CyberGus]

I would send an email to your State Attoney General. This is the kind of situation they should respond to. And, assuming it is the same in your state, any company is required by law to respond to a request from the Attorney General. I am sure they can get Tesla's attention for you. Good luck!

This.

Refusing to accept a verifiable legal document undermines the entire system of ownership registration.

 

[Jpandes]

You are a victim of identity theft. This is a crime. All this starts from that point.

Yeah, you should check to see if any of your other accounts have been compromised, maybe freeze your credit report.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

While this seems complicated, and yes, 2FA on the Tesla account would probably be a good idea, the simple answer is a very simple copy of an "Information for Officer" report with your local police department. It provides the documentation on the event that should satisfy Tesla, combined with the other information you have. Simple and easy, although maybe a couple of days in waiting.

It is also a first step before you decided to jump into more complicated pushes with Tesla, and as noted above it is a form of identity theft, so a reasonable first step in any case. Or, of course you can go with the flashy post title, but that doesn't really help with Tesla.

 

[Naonak]

@Naonak if your Tesla doesn't have free Supercharging, can you still Supercharge? (Do they have a credit card linked to the account that will get billed for your charging?)

I have free Supercharging. It's a good thought, but doesn't work on that car.

Just to clarify if anyone is confused, the car itself hasn't been stolen. The only thing that's happened is that it's been transferred off my Tesla account, so the police don't really give a crap as no actual crime was committed that they care to investigate and it's a "civil matter" with Tesla, and I can't blame them, since it's Tesla just stuffing their heads up their asses on this. But this COULD lead to a stolen car situation very easily, so it's ridiculous they won't act.

The egregious part of this is that I have presented valid ownership documents and Tesla refuses to accept them. That's the part I just don't get. Also, they won't tell me who the person it was transferred to is. If I sold the vehicle, wouldn't I know who it was? So why would that information be sensitive? The local SC says there's nothing they can do and I need to talk to Corporate as they don't have access to that part of the system.