Vehicle shutting down please pull over safely [edit: 12v battery issue]

[paulvinh]

I recently got this error and the car jolted while my pregnant wife and two year old son is in the car. Scared the heck out of all of us. I pulled over quickly to double check if I ran over anything. Nothing was in my way. The error was still showing power reduced, vehicle may not restart. I powered it off and on again to see that the errors were gone. Luckily we were about 1 mile away so I just put it in Drive and got home.

Scheduled for service right away.

I did not drive it for 2 days and then I decided to test it out for about a mile and it happened again but this time it completely shut down in the middle of road. Had to get it towed to service center.

chatting with service center the next day and they thought it was an issue with the 12v but a few hours later said they were still receiving errors.

anyone experience this before?

I loved the car but i feel that I can not trust driving with my family in the car anymore when I get it back.

 

[KenC]

I recently got this error and the car jolted while my pregnant wife and two year old son is in the car. Scared the heck out of all of us. I pulled over quickly to double check if I ran over anything. Nothing was in my way. The error was still showing power reduced, vehicle may not restart. I powered it off and on again to see that the errors were gone. Luckily we were about 1 mile away so I just put it in Drive and got home.

Scheduled for service right away.

I did not drive it for 2 days and then I decided to test it out for about a mile and it happened again but this time it completely shut down in the middle of road. Had to get it towed to service center.

chatting with service center the next day and they thought it was an issue with the 12v but a few hours later said they were still receiving errors.

anyone experience this before?

I loved the car but i feel that I can not trust driving with my family in the car anymore when I get it back.

How old's the car/battery?

 

[cwerdna]

Assuming no user error (e.g. out of charge), please file a safety complaint at Home | Safercar -- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) after the repair is completed.

 

[paulvinh]

How old's the car/battery?

may 2018. 45k miles

 

[drtimhill]

Assuming no user error (e.g. out of charge), please file a safety complaint at Home | Safercar -- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) after the repair is completed.

Why ?

 

[cwerdna]

Why ?

Because it is a clear safety defect and it will add a data point and if NHTSA or Tesla determines there is a safety defect that affects a certain batch of vehicles, they could issue a recall. This would benefit all those in the affected group, if any.

In the Toyota "SUA"/pedal entrapment via floor mat/sticky accelerator pedal mechanism, look at the graph at DOT Renders Its Verdict on Toyota's Unintended Acceleration Scare. If all those people who waited until the media circus had reported it earlier, don't you think a recall would've a happened earlier?

Many many other vehicles have been recalled for loss of propulsion, so at least it meets the bar or a safety defect. Google for recalled for stalling. Feel free to add other automaker's names that you know of to that query.

The OP also used the words scared and that it stopped in the middle of the road. An unexpected stopped vehicle in the middle of a busy road == FAR increased chance of crash(es).

 

[drtimhill]

Because it is a clear safety defect and it will add a data point and if NHTSA or Tesla determines there is a safety defect that affects a certain batch of vehicles, they could issue a recall. This would benefit all those in the affected group, if any.

In the Toyota "SUA"/pedal entrapment via floor mat/sticky accelerator pedal mechanism, look at the graph at DOT Renders Its Verdict on Toyota's Unintended Acceleration Scare. If all those people who waited until the media circus had reported it earlier, don't you think a recall would've a happened earlier?

Many many other vehicles have been recalled for loss of propulsion, so at least it meets the bar or a safety defect. Google for recalled for stalling. Feel free to add other automaker's names that you know of to that query.

So are you saying every mechanical breakdown of a car should be reported to the NHTSA?

 

[paulvinh]

They came back and said it was just the 12v

 

[cwerdna]

So are you saying every mechanical breakdown of a car should be reported to the NHTSA?

No. Only ones that meet the criteria as outlined at Motor Vehicle Defects and Safety Recalls: What Every Vehicle Owner Should Know | Safercar.gov | NHTSA.

What Is a safety-related defect?
The United States Code for Motor Vehicle Safety (Title 49, Chapter 301) defines motor vehicle safety as “the performance of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in a way that protects the public against unreasonable risk of accidents occurring because of the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against unreasonable risk of death or injury in an accident, and includes nonoperational safety of a motor vehicle.” A defect includes “any defect in performance, construction, a component, or material of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment.” Generally, a safety defect is defined as a problem that exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that:

• poses an risk to motor vehicle safety, and
• may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture.

That page them goes on to give many examples of safety defects and ones aren't.

You can find PLENTY of examples of defects that met the bar including loss of propulsion in which the automaker issued a recall and went thru the whole process w/NHTSA and their counterparts in other countries.

And, this is also N/A for vehicles that are operated and sold outside the US. It should be filed with that country's NHTSA equivalent (e.g. Transport Canada for Canada). And, it is pretty much useless to report them if the manufacturer is no longer obligated to provide a free repair or they're out of business.

Are there any limitations on my right to have a recalled vehicle remedied at no charge?
Yes. There is a limitation based on the age of the vehicle. In order to be eligible for a free remedy, the vehicle cannot be more than 10 years old on the date the defect or noncompliance is determined. Under the law, the age of the vehicle is calculated from the date of sale to the first purchaser. For example, if a defect is found in 2003 and a recall ordered, manufacturers are required to make the correction available at no charge only for vehicles purchased new in 1994 through 2003. However, consumers should realize that even though manufacturers are not obligated to remedy safety defects in older cars, a safety problem might still exist. If you receive notification of a defect on a vehicle older than 10 years, take the responsibility to have your car repaired at your own expense – and eliminate unnecessary safety risks.

For the two disagree people, are you arguing that loss of propulsion (not due to user error) due to a vehicle defect while an automobile is in motion is not a safety defect?

I am personally against people filing bogus safety complaints (e.g. moron Keef). And, on MyNissanLeaf, I've specifically asked people to NOT file NON-SAFETY defects as safety complaints w/NHTSA. I can try to dig up that post, if you wish.

 

[jjrandorin]

No. Only ones that meet the criteria as outlined at Motor Vehicle Defects and Safety Recalls: What Every Vehicle Owner Should Know | Safercar.gov | NHTSA.

That page them goes on to give many examples of safety defects and ones aren't.

You can find PLENTY of examples of defects that met the bar including loss of propulsion in which the automaker issued a recall and went thru the whole process w/NHTSA and their counterparts in other countries.

And, this is also N/A for vehicles that are operated and sold outside the US. It should be filed with that country's NHTSA equivalent (e.g. Transport Canada for Canada). And, it is pretty much useless to report them if the manufacturer is no longer obligated to provide a free repair or they're out of business.

For the two disagree people, are you arguing that loss of propulsion (not due to user error) due to a vehicle defect while an automobile is in motion is not a safety defect?

I am personally against people filing bogus safety complaints (e.g. moron Keef). And, on MyNissanLeaf, I've specifically asked people to NOT file NON-SAFETY defects as safety complaints w/NHTSA. I can try to dig up that post, if you wish.

If I was tesla and had to respond to this complaint on this vehicle, based on what the OP posted, my first response would be "the car displayed a warning that the car may shut down and may not be able to restart". Owner XXX was able to get home, and then disgarded the warning to try driving vehicle again instead of having the vehicle brought to service".

Getting stuck sucks, so I am not trying to dog pile on the OP, but with that said, the OP got a warning in the car, was able to get home, then "went out for a drive to test it", even though the error message was "vehicle may not start", previously.

============================

Now... putting on the mod hat for just a second, I will remind everyone following along that this OPs issue is now SOLVED, and turned out to be a 12V battery issue. I mention this as I feel this thread might go down this road of "NHTSA complaints" which has nothing to do with this OPs question.

Keep that in mind if people want to continue this discussion about submitting NHTSA complaints. I am not attempting to shut that down, just remind people that this OPs issue is solved, and maybe that discussion should be its own thread if people want to have that talk.

 

[KenC]

I'm thinking the 12V battery issue needs its own Master Thread.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm thinking the 12V battery issue needs its own Master Thread.

Im not opposed to that, but, unlike "range" threads, they havent quite overrun the forum. If there are good threads that would give people info to read up on, on that issue, I am certainly not opposed to making a master thread out of them.

 

[KenC]

Im not opposed to that, but, unlike "range" threads, they havent quite overrun the forum. If there are good threads that would give people info to read up on, on that issue, I am certainly not opposed to making a master thread out of them.

Would be nice if the 12v threads could be collected, could be the start of trying to piece together the commonality in symptoms, age of battery, mfring batch numbers, etc. It's just disconcerting to have 12V failures, and not know whether it's a bad batch of batteries, or the way Tesla tops up the batteries, etc.

 

[jjrandorin]

Would be nice if the 12v threads could be collected, could be the start of trying to piece together the commonality in symptoms, age of battery, mfring batch numbers, etc. It's just disconcerting to have 12V failures, and not know whether it's a bad batch of batteries, or the way Tesla tops up the batteries, etc.

(moderator content inc, off topic of original thread but addressing thoughts around a master thread on 12v)

I looked into this a bit, and because of the way the forum software works, if we merge a bunch of threads (or a bunch of posts from various threads) into one thread (for example, to make a master thread) it gets kind of "wonky".

Since the forum software moves everything in chronological order, the conversations in the various threads get split up, and the thread becomes very (very) difficult to read / follow.

So, while I could fairly easily make a sticky thread and call it "Master thread: Model 3 12volt Battery issues, monitoring, Aftermarket replacement", as an example, if I combined the various threads on failed 12 volt batteries and the Ohmmu (and MPP) batteries in that thread, it wouldnt really be useful as a reference because the conversations would not be able to be followed.

I could also make a master thread with just a few links to those various threads, but that also defeats the purpose in general of being able to move those discussions (and new ones) into that master thread.

What would have to happen is, "someone" (not me, lol) who has a lot of knowledge around this would have to create a new thread with a bunch of info around this topic, that I could turn into a new master thread, and then going forward after that point, that thread could have NEW posts on the topic moved to it, etc. existing ones would need to stay separate as mentioned above.

If someone wants to pull together that 12v battery content, as I mentioned I am not opposed at all to making a master thread out of it. I just dont want to merge existing ones because of what I outlined above.

EDIT: I also likely should have made a separate new thread on this, instead of just replying here, but since @KenC asked about it here, and we had a short discussion about it here, I posted my mod reply here as well.

 

[Gasaraki]

My 2016 WRX alternator and 12v battery failed while I was driving this year. I lost power steering and fuel pump and was on the side of the road. If your ICE car 12v battery dies, you have the same issues.

 

[drtimhill]

You can find PLENTY of examples of defects that met the bar including loss of propulsion in which the automaker issued a recall and went thru the whole process w/NHTSA and their counterparts in other countries.

And, this is also N/A for vehicles that are operated and sold outside the US. It should be filed with that country's NHTSA equivalent (e.g. Transport Canada for Canada). And, it is pretty much useless to report them if the manufacturer is no longer obligated to provide a free repair or they're out of business.

On this case it was the 12V battery, so I think you were way over-zealous in suggesting the OP report it to the NHTSA. I'm pretty sure they know that a dead battery will cause any can to have problems.

 

[JCtx]

So Teslas have a 12V battery??? What the hell for, if it's a freaking EV already? Learned something new today. Want to know what it's for, and if it gets charged with the battery pack, or needs separate charging. Where is the thing? Thanks guys. Considering a 2021 M3 LR, so learning as much as I can to see if it's the right vehicle for us now. Thx.

 

[Apone]

My 2016 WRX alternator and 12v battery failed while I was driving this year. I lost power steering and fuel pump and was on the side of the road. If your ICE car 12v battery dies, you have the same issues.

My only retort to this is that you can usually tell when an ICE car 12v is going out. I've never had one die on me like that because I get multiple hard starts that let me know it is time. I also drove a WRX for many years and it would barely start sometimes. Drive straight to store and have a new battery in. With these cars we don't seem to have figured out the warning signs since you don't start the car or anything. As mentioned we need an indicator or timer or something to say time is up on this 12v. I don't want to be surprised and I'm not completely clear on the change process like I am in an ICE car. Lot's of things not to worry about in an EV but this occupies a little mind space.

 

[jjrandorin]

So Teslas have a 12V battery??? What the hell for, if it's a freaking EV already? Learned something new today. Want to know what it's for, and if it gets charged with the battery pack, or needs separate charging. Where is the thing? Thanks guys. Considering a 2021 M3 LR, so learning as much as I can to see if it's the right vehicle for us now. Thx.

Its charged by the main battery, and runs basically the same things it does in a gas vehicle, except its fairly small and cheap (OEM replacement is $85 part).

If you want to read more about this issue, check the stickied thread:

Master thread: Model 3 12v Battery issues, monitoring, Aftermarket replacement

 

[drtimhill]

So Teslas have a 12V battery??? What the hell for, if it's a freaking EV already? Learned something new today. Want to know what it's for, and if it gets charged with the battery pack, or needs separate charging. Where is the thing? Thanks guys. Considering a 2021 M3 LR, so learning as much as I can to see if it's the right vehicle for us now. Thx.

Several reasons for the 12V battery (which is charged from the main battery, btw). One is when you run the main battery down to empty (not advised, but it happens). Without the 12V battery there would be no power to drive the electronics etc necessary to control main battery charging. Another is to run the various subsystems while the main battery is disconnected (when the car is sleeping). For safety, the main battery is physically disconnected when the care is sleeping (you can hear the clunk of the circuit breakers opening/closing when you get into the car).