"Vehicle Systems Very Hot. Charge Speed Reduced"

[jerry33]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Tesla is not going to allow any modes the car allows an owner to select are going to have detrimental effect on the battery pack.

I'd modify that to say severely detrimental.

Yes range mode limits A/C performance for cabin cooling... but they aren't going to allow you to cook your battery. Yes, that mode will not heat your battery as aggressively in cold weather, but a cold has no harmful effect on the pack... getting too hot does.

Agreed. Cold doesn't matter (although LiIon cells can't get below freezing). Heat matters. While charging, the battery will be kept cooler if range mode is off (speculation based on cold weather behaviour). When driving, there's no problem with range mode on, although I've found that it doesn't really help range in hot weather, while it does help in cold weather (although on long trips it doesn't matter in the cold either.)

 

[ZBB]

Interesting. I was wondering how the SCs would handle AZ summers.

I'll keep this in mind for our road trip this summer -- Quartzsite and Indio in particular may need longer charging stops...

- - - Updated - - -

Jeremy, maybe your Canadian car was just in shock in those Arizona temps! :wink:

So how do you think my Arizona car will handle Saltspring next month?

 

[Curt]

Ok, next question: How on earth did Tesla manage to get SO MANY THINGS right!!?????!?!?!??!?!?

That one is easy - experience gained from the Roadsters. :biggrin:

You're welcome.

 

[andrewket]

In the winter, range mode limits the heating of the battery pack. I would think that in summer it would also limit the cooling as well. I try to remember to turn range mode off when charging. When it's cold and I forget, the battery is not completely warmed up. If I remember it's completely warmed up. Tesla should fix the software to automatically disable range mode when the car is plugged in.

I don't have any summer range mode observations because I've found that it really doesn't help in summer (when compared to just adjusting the temperature setting up and down as required).

- - - Updated - - -



Technical Service Bulletin. This is a fix that is applied when a customer complains rather than a fix that is pushed out to every car as they come in for service.

Yes I know. I was answering the person above me

 

[mgboyes]

I thought it was well known that range mode limited the power the AC system can draw in general (irrespective of whether it's for heating or cooling, and for the cabin or battery pack).

Turning off range mode would most likely have fixed this.

But I agree that range mode should disengage automatically when charging (and especially at a Supercharger!)

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I think it would be highly unlikely the sound insulation blanket would reduce A/C efficiency as the heat exchange happens at a radiator in the front grill, not at the compressor.

If you cracked open your A/C at home you'd see the same thing. Inside that big box/cylinder outside your house you'll find a compressor in the middle and heat transfer pipes out to the cooling fins around the perimeter. Insulating the compressor in the middle will have minimal impact.

 

[Ugliest1]

So, not really off topic but sort of, I just want to point out how much knowledge there is on this forum. I'd also like to say how much I appreciate everyone's willingness to take the time to share. Friday's little episode only caused a teeny-weeny little bit of nervousness for me (I mean really, really, really tiny). I was still pretty confident there really was no problem, and now that confidence has shot up even more.

(Forum-related: thanks again to Doug who I just met at the post-shareholder meeting lunch and ALL the moderators who keep this complicated effort going behind the scenes.)

 

[David99]

The description of 'range mode' says it limits the heater and AC and might not reach the desired temperature. It does not say it will also reduce cooling of the car systems and let it get too hot. That would make no sense. It also doesn't match what I have experienced driving in range mode in very hot weather (way above 100). As long as the power consumption of the motor is low, the AC will run just fine and reach the desired temperature. Only when you increase power to the motor (going fast, going uphill) the temperature rises in the cabin.
The OP said he was standing in traffic for more than one hour which means there was zero power to the motor. In that case there is no reduction of the AC in 'range mode' anyways.

The AC cools both the cabin and the battery and motor/inverter and the chargers. I think it is safe to say that the car has the ability to redirect the coolant to each part separately so that adjusting the cabin temperature doesn't change the way the battery is cooled. Same case the opposite way, even if the driver turns off the AC, the car will use the AC to cool all systems if needed. It would make no sense whatsoever if they were linked. In the same way it is reasonable to assume that 'range mode' will just give less priority to the cabin, but not compromise cooling of the battery and other car systems.

I doubt there is some sort of official statement or document from Tesla that says 'range mode' can lead to the car systems to go too hot.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I supervcharged in Quartzite, Kingman, Flagstaff and Buckeye yesterday, all times same message, think how hot the battery was from 150 degree asphalt and charging, definately too hot.
It caused me no problems either and went away soon after driving each time.

Did you also have the acoustic modification done to your AC compressor?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Tesla is not going to allow any modes the car allows an owner to select are going to have detrimental effect on the battery pack.

Agree.

 

[Modelxvin1365]

This is a new one on me, and from the sounds of it was a new one on the Tesla support person I talked to. Thankfully everything on the car continued to appear to work normally, and Tesla couldn't see any problem from their end.

Yesterday we were driving from Palm Springs / Quartzsite to Kingman, in 38-42C (100+F) in Range mode and being very comfortable in the AC the car was providing us. 15 miles out of Quartzsite we ran into (not literally) stopped traffic on 10E because of an accident involving a pickup towing a trailer full of hay bales, and a Fed Ex truck. We stopped, and sat for 1hr 20 min before traffic started moving again. We left the car in Range mode throughout, with AC going. Once we got to Kingman, I plugged in and everything looked normal at first. But quite quickly the following popped up on my display: "Vehicle Systems Very Hot. Charge Speed Reduced" (see pic).

I phoned Tesla service, they suggested unplugging, powering down the car completely, wait 20 sec, then power up and re-start charging. No change - message was on there immediately. Rebooting both screens didn't change anything; no other outward sign of problem so we continued on charging to get our planned amount and left for Laughlin. It was about 10-15 minutes down the road at ~65mph that suddenly the warning message cleared and ... Bob's your uncle. There didn't seem to be any other option to actually try to deal with the "overheating". I felt powering down and waiting a while would be worse because then the normal cooling would also stop.

I had just had the sound insulation installed to quiet the AC, was wondering if that kept some heat in as well. Things in the frunk were quite hot once we stopped. I've never seen this mentioned on TMC and a search only brought up a Roadster. Any comments?

Just for future reference Telsa makes reference to this issue.their super charging FAQs "Charging will be subject to State of Charge and in extreme climates above 100 degrees charging may slightly be reduced" What you experienced is actually quite normal. Im not sure if you have had any experience with Large lithium ion batteries like those used in 500 class size helicopters or Model Rc Cars as a youth. During times of discharge and high amperage situations for example, my 600 Class helicopter in acrobatic and fast flying maneuver will pull 145 dc amps. After the flying session the batteries will become very warm, and for good long life cell and thermal management you allow them to cool for a period of time preferably down to room temperature before charging otherwise you risk damaging the cells and shortening their life. Humidity has a much smaller effect on charging rates, rather the Temperature as you mentioned sitting in traffic for an extended period of time will leave the physical car extremely hot.Furthermore The Energy Storage System (aka tesla pack) is made up exclusively of aluminum which transmits heat very effectively. Sitting in traffic induces massive amount of radiant heat leaving the pack at above normal temperatures leaving the Thermal management system onboard the Model s already taxed. Once your plugged into a supercharger compressing and distributing 135,000 Kw of electricity Tremendously Increases the heat generated in the pack,Teslas thermal management system has a predetermined Temperature range in which helps pro long longevity .In order to maintain and stay within the temperature range the supercharger current is reduced to coincide with the ability of the thermal management system to cope with the intense heat Generated . A long Explanation But Simple Principles,:smile:

 

[Ugliest1]

Thanks X1365. Further evidence everything was ok.

 

[Model S P]

On a recent trip from San Diego to Phoenix, we used the SCs at Yuma and Gila Bend. Ambient was around 105 and we had the AC in range mode. I charged in Yuma to ~130% of the rated range to Gila Bend. With about 60 miles to Gila Bend, we had 90 miles rated remaining so I picked up the pace a bit. We hit 0 miles remaining as we coasted in to the SC.
After plugging in, the charge rate was limited to 10 kW for the first 5 minutes or so. Apparently zero SOC and high ambient limit SC rate.
Has anyone else experienced this? Has anyone experimented with the minimum SOC to prevent limiting at high ambient temperature?

 

[Modelxvin1365]

Thanks X1365. Further evidence everything was ok.

Sure any time enjoy your model s!

 

[Rainbow]

Vehicle Systems Very Hot...Any comments?

Maybe it is vainly bragging? :wink:

 

[Electric700]

You might just want to stop charging for 5 minutes if this happens again, but keep the car on with AC running to let it cool down the battery. Also if you don't already have window tint, consider adding that to cut down on summertime heat.

 

[mgdurand]

I get this error message every time I use a supercharger now, because it's been 105-111 everywhere I use a supercharger (Yuma, Qte, GB, Buckeye). I keep the AC blasting (i.e. no Range mode) and don't have any insulation around the compressor. I imagine the battery has temperature sensors which provide appropriate feedback to the charge controllers, and that the temp / longevity curve has been worked out by Tesla to preserve battery life at least through the the projected warranty period. Maybe not, but I'm not worrying about it. I drive about 800 miles a week, and mostly charge on superchargers, and so far so good, knock on wood. I haven't notice decreased range, but I haven't tried to charge to 100% in a long time either.

 

[Plug Me In]

I skipped a couple of pages so this may have been covered. I noticed last summer when I got home from a road trip and plugged into my 14-50 that I got a rate of something like 10 miles/ hr charge. It was hot out and I thought it was ambient temp and posted here, but consensus was that it was probably battery being hot from the road trip and just a protective thing. Ambient temps may contribute a little to that. I bet now they just have a warning message to let you know.

 

[zax123]

Thanks all. Let me reiterate I couldn't see anything wrong with the car's performance throughout and I didn't mean to imply that suddenly there's something wrong with all cars. Like Cottonwood said, the car seemed to protect itself just fine (thanks Cottonwood for the explanation... I was thinking along those lines but didn't have the tech knowhow to work the logic through thoroughly... thus the post).

I used range mode yesterday because of our mileage needs over yesterday and today with no further charging available after Quartzsite before finally getting to Vegas on our roundabout overnight route. I hadn't used it before and will likely not use it again except for specific circumstances. By the way the car performed fabulously.

Re the A/C sound dampener, all things considered I am very happy to have gotten it. It reduces the noise quite a bit, and the rest of the car's systems seem to take care of other side effects.

Vger - yup I'm sure! And even though the car must have been shocked by all the non-Victoria sun and heat, we felt totally comfortable ensconced in our little noiseless, vibrationless, oilless cocoon.

Ok, next question: How on earth did Tesla manage to get SO MANY THINGS right!!?????!?!?!??!?!?

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, once I saw the message (while supercharging), I took range mode off as I was wondering if that had escalated things a bit. But that wouldn't have made any difference (I am assuming) until we started going again.

What is this sound dampener for the AC you speak of? Is that a Tesla I installed modification?

 

[Ugliest1]

See this thread: It's that time again - embarrassing loud AC compressor

It did help a bit but the car is definitely not "silent" on those really hot days. Nowhere close.

 

[apacheguy]

FWIW, I supercharged several times this past weekend in 100+ degree heat. Not once did I see this message, but the fans were definitely running at max (and very loud from the exterior). Furthermore, despite the heat and the long drive I had just completed, the car jumped up to 89 kW (my supercharge ceiling, A pack) almost immediately. Range mode was off.