rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
There seems to be a few companies trying. The exciting thing about Model S is that with 20 kW chargers, a mere 50 could get to the 1 MW threshold. I think a pilot project is in order.
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Vehicle to Grid - V2G
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rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Well, each car would need to be plugged in to a 20 kW charger. I should contact Tesla about working with them on this.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
A check on this -- if the vehicles are charging at 20 kW, they'll charge twice as fast and you'll be able to sell the regulation service they offer in half of the hours. Of course, it's better to have the flexibility of the 20 kW chargers, but the real constraint is the battery size. Once the car is charged, it can't provide additional regulation.
This is the same optimization problem that pumped storage facilities have. You have to take into account both the flow limit and the energy limit. The good news is that we've got pretty good heuristics for optimizing pumped storage.
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rolo, you've been following this project, I assume? East Penn Technology
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rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Of course this is the case. The optimization constraints will be something along the line of:
POP(t) + Rd(t) <= ChargerMax
sum(POP(t)+Rd(t),t) + SOC_I <= BatteryMax
POP(t) >=0
Rd(t) >= 0
The larger ChargerMax is the better. Plus the dispatch percentage is around 19% of capacity, so even though you'll bid all 20 kW, you'll only charge at around 5 kW.
What if a parking house operator equips all slots with smart EVSE? Would it be a business case to sell the managed electric demand of some 500 parked vehicles?
He could attract EVs, or - dare I say - plug in hybrids by offering parking capacity in a location where that comes at a price - say downtown NYC.
He could attract EVs, or - dare I say - plug in hybrids by offering parking capacity in a location where that comes at a price - say downtown NYC.
What @rolosrevenge has in mind is different: in his idea, the vehicle doesn't put power onto the grid, so there's no degradation of the battery. Instead, he would control the rate of charging in response to grid conditions, which shouldn't harm the battery. Done right, such grid-controlled charging could be valuable to the EV owner, the charging aggregator, and society generally.
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Yes, but ... the parking operator needs to know what the requirements of the EV owners will be. If I'm just parking for 4 hours and am counting on getting at least 30kWh of charge, I'd be very annoyed to find that the parking operator instead added only 5kWh of charge to sell the regulation-down from my car.
Again, this isn't fatal; it just means that there needs to be a lot of communication (some of it automatic, some of it manual) to make this business model work for everyone. Mathematically, it just adds another constraint to the LP written out by @rolosrevenge.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Right, and the point of my original article is that the EV owner requirements can be tweeted by Model S, so it doesn't require a whole new system to figure it out.
Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) describes a system
Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) describes a system in which plug-in electric vehicles, such as electric cars (BEVs) and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs), communicate with the power grid to sell demand response services by either delivering electricity into the grid or by throttling their charging rate
Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) describes a system in which plug-in electric vehicles, such as electric cars (BEVs) and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs), communicate with the power grid to sell demand response services by either delivering electricity into the grid or by throttling their charging rate
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Right, so I'm talking about only throttling the charging rate. Model S doesn't come with the hardware to discharge energy into the grid, so all of the after market hardware, warranty issues, interconnection issues, plus customer preferences, have long convinced me that such a system isn't going to happen any time soon for normal customers. Commercial fleets, however, is another matter entirely.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
There are many solutions that can easily be implemented with additional hardware, but Model S is the first that can do it only needing additional software. It's exciting.
digitaltim
Sig737 VIN628
+1
This is the exact idea I pitched to my energy/utility corporation during my 20+ year career there - the only downside is shorting the EV of energy the owner expected but would be a nice alternative to load shedding when the grid is in crisis state and they would not have gotten the energy anyway - demand Management is a viable ancillary versus regulation.
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rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
If the owner can schedule with the car when he would like it charged by, and the car can send that to the aggregator, it can be scheduled with almost 100% certainty that the car will be charged when it's supposed to, so there'll be no noticeable effect on the customer, unless they come for it early.
PJM, operator of the largest section of the US grid (roughly a triangle bounded by New Jersey, Chicago, and the NC Outer Banks), filed this interesting statement with FERC on Friday in Docket ER13-486-001:
Deciphering: PJM has a ways to go before it can use distributed DR to provide ancillary services, like regulation.
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