Vehicle-to-Home Load Shifting $14k 6-yr savings?

[TSLA Pilot]

Im totally NOT interested in using the expensive battery in my car, which was designed to run my car, to power my or anyone elses home, except for an emergency. I remember reading somewhere that battery chemistry for the car batteries is different than for powerwalls, due to the different use case (car acceleration, vs home electricity usage.

I would be interested in plugging in my car in an outage situation to assist my powerwalls in powering my home, but as a "general use, mobile powerwall" situation, no, not interested even in the slightest bit.

This is the problem with using "old" thinking with new tech.

It is VERY likely that latest battery chemistry makes battery cycles nearly irrelevant--for many decades. Plus, using PW's is sort of a joke at ~17kW each, when every Tesla will have some 75 to potentially 200 kWh energy storage capacity. This is even more enhanced by COVID-19 changes to the work/home lifestyle.

This is huge untapped potential for Tesla and I hope they are also thinking of creating entire off-grid "Tesla Communities" in the years ahead--I'd move to be in one as nearly all homebuilders and utilities remain stunningly inept in the face of the threat posed by anthropogenic climate change.

They just don't get it, so let's leave them in the dustbin of history, where they belong.

A warming Arctic could cost the world trillions of dollars

Journey to the 'doomsday glacier'

 

[wwu123]

While I think many Tesla car owners will not want to risk sacrificing longevity, range, cycles on their vehicle and battery when new, I think there's tremendous opportunity for V2G after the cars are 6+ years old, past the warranty period and half their useful life as vehicles. At that point, the battery may be degraded by 20-30% for range as a car, inducing some range/trip anxiety, the rest of the car parts may start failing, and the value as a used car is down to $15-20K or less at that point.

But as a home battery, that 70%-80% of remaning battery capacity is a perfectly usable 50-60kwh Powerwall that can support thousands of additional cycles for home purposes. For less price than it would cost to buy and install dedicated Powerwalls. It is just that this Powerwall happens to have wheels on it, and if needed you can disconnect it from your house to go buy groceries in a pinch.

People have talked for years about taking the batteries out of the old cars and re-purposing them for home backup, but WHY bother to take them out of the car at all, if the car can be enabled for V2G?

 

[miimura]

I already have Powerwalls for solar time shifting. If the compensation was sufficient, I would sign up for demand response to allow the utility to take energy out of my batteries to supplement the grid. I would only use vehicle batteries to provide emergency power to my home when the grid was down. I have already demonstrated that it works, but the parts I bought are not robust enough to really depend on them.

Powerwall 2.0 Backup Runtime Extender

 

[Southpasfan]

While I think many Tesla car owners will not want to risk sacrificing longevity, range, cycles on their vehicle and battery when new, I think there's tremendous opportunity for V2G after the cars are 6+ years old, past the warranty period and half their useful life as vehicles. At that point, the battery may be degraded by 20-30% for range as a car, inducing some range/trip anxiety, the rest of the car parts may start failing, and the value as a used car is down to $15-20K or less at that point.

But as a home battery, that 70%-80% of remaning battery capacity is a perfectly usable 50-60kwh Powerwall that can support thousands of additional cycles for home purposes. For less price than it would cost to buy and install dedicated Powerwalls. It is just that this Powerwall happens to have wheels on it, and if needed you can disconnect it from your house to go buy groceries in a pinch.

People have talked for years about taking the batteries out of the old cars and re-purposing them for home backup, but WHY bother to take them out of the car at all, if the car can be enabled for V2G?

By the way this illustrates a very interesting fact. An economic one. Looking at this like a puzzle, right now a new solar plant has to produce energy at around 3 cents per kwh. Of course, we know as consumers we get charged more like 20 cents on average, and the cost is muddled by TOU plans, and some are lucky to have lower cost.

But the point stands, its tough to bring in a massive solar plant under that 3 cents (wholesale) cost.

However, it is now possible for each user to install a home system which easily beats the 20 cent target, as long as the panels last the 25 year warranty.

With battery back up, its possible (due to Tesla's price lowering and new tech in general) that a solar AND battery system can beat the 20 cent target.

If older battery powered cars can be easily turned into powerwalls, well, that's a nice recycle for sure.

I am not sure how practical it is to retain an extra car and arrange for it to sit there, though. The question will be whether Tesla figures out how to make an offer for old Teslas to essentially recycle them. I bet they will.

 

[Ampster]

it's only a matter of time before the US gets with the program.

Tesla time?

 

[Ampster]

But the point stands, its tough to bring in a massive solar plant under that 3 cents (wholesale) cost.

I have seen some PPAs right around that number. If I remember correctly one of them included batteries. That may have given them access to pricing outside of the usual solar time frame.