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Vehicle to home power during emergency
- Thread starter SlicedBr3ad
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- Model 3
There are two approaches I've seen used for EVs and PHEVs in this sort of situation.
The simplest is a 12V inverter - hooked in to the car's 12V systems, it creates a small amount of AC electricity to run a single fridge and charge cell phones and the like. Those you can buy off the shelf from Amazon and the like and connect yourself. This means all of the power for the inverter is running through the car's DC-DC converter, and that often limits the power available. For my Volt, GM published specs that said it was a 2kW/175A device, so I felt reasonably safe with a 1kW inverter (remember, the car has to be on so the DC-DC will run and you don't kill the 12V, and so the car's systems need some level of power.)
Tesla hasn't published the limits of the DC-DC converter for the S/X that I've seen (who knows if the 3 will get the same capacity,) and I haven't read of anyone doing testing on its limits. The small 12V complicates matters, because a relatively short period of overdraw might drain it, which would shut the car down until it can be jumped with 12V power.
The other approach is something marketed commercially in Japan, though I haven't seen them for sale here. Japanese companies sell an inverter connected to a CHAdeMO connector, which draws high voltage DC directly from the pack on a Leaf, Outlander, or Mirai (the only reason a Mirai has a CHAdeMO connector...) This of course eliminates the stress on the DC-DC converter and the limitations from there, and there's no need to mess with wiring. It's a safer, more efficient, more capable (and undoubtedly more expensive) solution.
In principle, if one could acquire it, one could hook one of these devices to the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter and plug that into the car. I'm sure all the parts will fit and connect electrically. I'm not sure what would happen when it was turned on - I don't know if the car has code to keep power from being drained that way, or if the other cars require explicit code to control how the drain is handled. I don't think there's any risk of anything breaking or any safety hazard, but I wouldn't place a bet on whether you'd get power out.
The simplest is a 12V inverter - hooked in to the car's 12V systems, it creates a small amount of AC electricity to run a single fridge and charge cell phones and the like. Those you can buy off the shelf from Amazon and the like and connect yourself. This means all of the power for the inverter is running through the car's DC-DC converter, and that often limits the power available. For my Volt, GM published specs that said it was a 2kW/175A device, so I felt reasonably safe with a 1kW inverter (remember, the car has to be on so the DC-DC will run and you don't kill the 12V, and so the car's systems need some level of power.)
Tesla hasn't published the limits of the DC-DC converter for the S/X that I've seen (who knows if the 3 will get the same capacity,) and I haven't read of anyone doing testing on its limits. The small 12V complicates matters, because a relatively short period of overdraw might drain it, which would shut the car down until it can be jumped with 12V power.
The other approach is something marketed commercially in Japan, though I haven't seen them for sale here. Japanese companies sell an inverter connected to a CHAdeMO connector, which draws high voltage DC directly from the pack on a Leaf, Outlander, or Mirai (the only reason a Mirai has a CHAdeMO connector...) This of course eliminates the stress on the DC-DC converter and the limitations from there, and there's no need to mess with wiring. It's a safer, more efficient, more capable (and undoubtedly more expensive) solution.
In principle, if one could acquire it, one could hook one of these devices to the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter and plug that into the car. I'm sure all the parts will fit and connect electrically. I'm not sure what would happen when it was turned on - I don't know if the car has code to keep power from being drained that way, or if the other cars require explicit code to control how the drain is handled. I don't think there's any risk of anything breaking or any safety hazard, but I wouldn't place a bet on whether you'd get power out.
Tesla definitely does not offer VtoG and if you try to modify your car to do that I am sure you will void the warranty.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It does void the warranty, see https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf
page 130 (pdf page 131)
Tesla sells another product for this exact purpose called the powerwall. It's also cheaper than a Model 3.
Tesla Powerwall
page 130 (pdf page 131)
Tesla sells another product for this exact purpose called the powerwall. It's also cheaper than a Model 3.
Tesla Powerwall
Thank you for providing this data. I agree they have another product, I also disagree that product is the solution to the issue I stated. That product is for those homes with power issues or for those with solar power which is not the case here. the power In my home is present 99.9% of the time. Spending $8k+for that 0.1% isn't reasonable but I would spend $100-1000 to get this feature into the car - the price is debatable but I'm basing it on the fact that majority of hardware and software already present in Tesla cars.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
You should do a search on this because there are already enormous threads on this subject.
The bottom line is that the car does not have the necessary discharge hardware that would allow its battery to become a 220V rapid discharge for powering your home.
Additionally, backfeeding it to the same outlet that is used to charge the car has its own problems as it would need to be isolated to only powering the circuits that the electrical output of the car could handle (say two 20 amp circuits)... failure to wire things properly could result in a brownout situation and theoretically damage to the Tesla battery.
I get why this would be "nice to have" but there's no way Tesla is going to offer it for a couple hundred bucks when they already make a product that is purpose built to do this.
How about installing rollers and a generator in the garage 
/s
/s
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
How about installing rollers and a generator in the garage
/s
I have a strict no fools fuel policy
Fortunately my batteries and solar have never let me down
It would be nice if Tesla offered a fused 400v port; that would be cheap. There are a few devices out there that can safely convert 400vdc to ~12/24/48v DC. From there you can just buy an inverter....
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
I have a strict no fools fuel policy
Fortunately my batteries and solar have never let me down
It would be nice if Tesla offered a fused 400v port; that would be cheap. There are a few devices out there that can safely convert 400vdc to ~12/24/48v DC. From there you can just buy an inverter....
It's great to have the convictions and willingness to put your money where your mouth is so to speak on having your backup power be battery sourced instead of using fuel generators.
However, "no fools fuels" statement is just silly hyperbole. Your life style would not be possible without the use of fossil fuels, our economy doesn't operate without them and trying to do so with current technology would mean that everything would cost significantly more.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Backfeeding can also endanger the lives of utility workers if you are not using a transfer switch.
You'd still need the transfer switch installed in any house you try using it so having the feature in the car alone is useless/dangerous
i've searched and found mostly opinion threads with void warranty at the end. however, do you have link?
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, the part about voiding of the warranty isn't opinion:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
You can install Powerwalls without have solar panels as a backup source for power outages.
We have two cars. Wife will be driving m3 and I'll stay with my ICE suv until that gets upgraded to electric suv in 5 years or so.
Again, the power is down 0.1% of the time so I would imagine if m3 was used to power anything during outage, once power comes back, it will charge again without need for moving the car.
Wrt installing powerwall without solar. The cost is too high. The power wall is$5500 and there are likely other costs related to installation so I'm guessing it will come out to be closer to$8k or more for just powerwall. In context, I'm paying about $.12/kW. Installing solar and powerwall isnt going to pay for it self in less than 15 years.
Not sure if this will be allowed. Think of all the people that use superchargers regularly that have free, lifetime access to superchargers. Those people will then charge up on a supercharger, then take that car home and power their homes. This can lead to abuse on a massive scale.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
You'd probably wear out your battery pretty quickly with that kind of abuse... Not sure the energy would be worth $35k
NeverFollow
Active Member
I wonder if using the internal 12 v battery to jump start an ICE car or to run some power tools would void the warranty?Just to be clear, the part about voiding of the warranty isn't opinion:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf
Note: The 12 v is not easily accessible. I wonder if installing a Power Socket inside the Frunk
would be allowed then and would not void the warranty ?
I noticed some pickup used by home construction contractors or AAA emergency assistance vehicles
have some external 12 v plugs attached to their front bumper allowing to plug a power tool or a jump start cable.
See below:
Model 6137 | Associated Equipment Corp.
Model 6139 | Associated Equipment Corp.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Why not just get a little $80 portable jump starter like http://a.co/2KtSyE0 keep it charged and with you, then you can be a good samaritan any time you wish without touching your own car.I wonder if using the internal 12 v battery to jump start an ICE car or to run some power tools would void the warranty?
Note: The 12 v is not easily accessible. I wonder if installing a Power Socket inside the Frunk
would be allowed then and would not void the warranty ?
I noticed some pickup used by home construction contractors or AAA emergency assistance vehicles
have some external 12 v plugs attached to their front bumper allowing to plug a power tool or a jump start cable.
See below:
Model 6137 | Associated Equipment Corp.
Model 6139 | Associated Equipment Corp.
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