Yes. That's what my previous post was trying to indicate. I was trying to match the 100% 60D charging rate to my 75D charging rate and see what my SOC is when the charging rate is the same. It seems like a 60D at 100% is at about 90ish % of the 75.
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Yes. That's what my previous post was trying to indicate. I was trying to match the 100% 60D charging rate to my 75D charging rate and see what my SOC is when the charging rate is the same. It seems like a 60D at 100% is at about 90ish % of the 75.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Have you guys taken multiple charging curves on the same vehicle on different occasions? I bet they are not identical, hence a hard time matching exactly. Things that will contribute to differences - software/firmware version, ambient temperature, cabin temperature (both set and actual if sitting in the car observing - could shut off hvac to make comparisons better), pack starting temperature and SOC). I think this is why the estimated vary between 86% and 92%. Personally I would trust wk's diagnostic screenshot showing 86% max charge on a 60.
Hey all thanks a ton for all the work and research.
Is the takeaway that the 60 at 100% is about 90% of a 75?
In that case, does it mean if we charge to the typically recommended true 80% of a battery, we should charge to around 90% of a 60?
Is the takeaway that the 60 at 100% is about 90% of a 75?
In that case, does it mean if we charge to the typically recommended true 80% of a battery, we should charge to around 90% of a 60?
Conclusive proof beyond a doubt that 60s are top limited. How much is subject to more experimentation, but based on charge rate curve comparison between 60 and 70it is fair to assume all of the 10 kWh buffer is at the top.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
Yes, we are still looking for this person. I found one a while back, but it was too late. He had already unlocked his 15 kWh and wasn't aware of the need to document the change in SOC. Anyone out there, reading this, contemplating paying for the upgrade from a 60 kWh to a 75 kWh?
I was thinking about crowdfunding my upgrade and then making that data available for all. Figured it shouldn't be hard to find ~100 owners at $100 a piece (covering the upgrade + Taxifornia taxes).
whitex
Well-Known Member
The_Mike
Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The power taper for the 60D starts as late as 55% SOC, compared to ~ 45% SOC in the 75D. This is consistent with both batteries starting from the same voltage and accumulating the same charge before taper begins. The higher SOC in the 60D is just arithmetic.
I don't think we can say that all the reserve is at the top, but I'm pretty confident that most of it is.
I don't think we can say that all the reserve is at the top, but I'm pretty confident that most of it is.
Looking at Wk's Data
75-->72.6
60-->62.4
Assuming 20% of the delta is bottom and 80% is on top, 2kWh on bottom adn 8kWh on top
so charging to 100% on 60 is 62.4/(72.6-2) =88% of 75, and charging to 95% on 60 is 62.4x95%(72.6-2)= ~84%.
Not sure how bad charging to 85-88% everyday is..Thoughts?
75-->72.6
60-->62.4
Assuming 20% of the delta is bottom and 80% is on top, 2kWh on bottom adn 8kWh on top
so charging to 100% on 60 is 62.4/(72.6-2) =88% of 75, and charging to 95% on 60 is 62.4x95%(72.6-2)= ~84%.
Not sure how bad charging to 85-88% everyday is..Thoughts?
whitex
Well-Known Member
I've been charging to max "daily" range since my 1st car. I think that's 85 or 90%? Never saw any noticeble degradation on either the 60 (actual old 60) or 85 and I had each over 1.5 years (still have the 85). Currently charging the SW limited 60 to 100% daily (so 86%).
hybridbear
Active Member
I would happily let someone with TM-Spy monitor my cell voltages. Is there anyone in the MN area with that tool?
Olle
Active Member
Here is some more evidence towards solving this mystery. I drove my software limited 70 a bit under 4%(9 RM) today. I remember on my old "non limited" car, the power limiter showed up on the dash once such low soc was reached. I have seen as low as 30 kW available. At between 3 and 4% SOC today I still had full power. Even tried full acceleration from a stop light to see if I could make the little yellow line show up, but no. This leads me to believe that there is a pretty sizable locked portion at the bottom.
Speaking of which; has anybody tried out how a software limited car behaves at 0%? A lot of us have already tried out unlocked cars under 0% with mixed results
Speaking of which; has anybody tried out how a software limited car behaves at 0%? A lot of us have already tried out unlocked cars under 0% with mixed results
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Another good reminder to think twice before buying a used EV. People are idiots.Speaking of which; has anybody tried out how a software limited car behaves at 0%? A lot of us have already tried out unlocked cars under 0% with mixed results
Olle
Active Member
No, people are not idiots, but some of us have inadvertently hit 0 miles (especially before the supercharger era) due to tremendous rain, or unexpected extreme cold for example. I hit it once, then I learned where it is and how to drive in the cold. The point I tried to make is that the shutdown point was unpredictable and would be good to know what behavior to expect from a sw limited battery.
DB 2
Member
I've got a used MS 60 that you definitely do not want to buy. And it is absolutely, positively not for sale.
DB 2
Member
New 60 at 100% charge:
Brick (cell): 4.075 to 4.080 volts
Pack: ~ 342.5 volts
(30 minutes after charge completed and no driving.)
Zero percent: you need to be more specific (BMS zero vs. UI zero -- they are significantly different, like 4 kWh)!
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