Version 8.1 coming out 12/31/16?

[drklain]

Elon just tweeted:

"Resolving an Autopilot HW2 bug that shows up when booting from a subzero cold-soak. If that fix works, software will start uploading tmrw."

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[HX_Guy]

Should probably merge this thread and the other but as I said there...

I just read that too and took it as another minor fox vs 8.1, which would really suck because most people would think its the long awaited 8.1 only to be disappointed by a big fix that probably didn't affect them.

I would think when 8.1 comes out, it would be announced clearly by Musk...or is that my his style/way it normally happens? (Haven't been following him long enough to know)

 

[drklain]

And in response to a question about ver 8.1 for HW1 (presumably AP1.0), he just said:

Late Jan, along with Linux kernel upgrade

So it looks like a fairly significant upgrade to the 1.0 cars if the base Linux kernel is being updated as well....

He has not answered yet questions people are tweeting him about what changes will be in 8.1 or if it will remove some of the restrictions recently placed on AP1

 

[ccharleb]

1. vicentes ‏@vicentes 9 minil y a 9 minutes
   @elonmusk @DragTimes what about 8.1 for HW 1 ?
   
   
2. Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 5 minil y a 5 minutes
   @vicentes @DragTimes Late Jan, along with Linux kernel upgrade
   
   
   

 

[drklain]

@ccharleb - Cool posting the links to the forum posts. What code do you use to post that in the forum? Or are you manually posting the images and links yourself?

 

[number12]

1. 
   
   
   • vicentes ‏@vicentes 9 minil y a 9 minutes
     @elonmusk @DragTimes what about 8.1 for HW 1 ?
     
   • Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 5 minil y a 5 minutes
     @vicentes @DragTimes Late Jan, along with Linux kernel upgrade
     

El oh el. Got'em again

 

[theslimshadyist]

If that fix works
If that fix
If that
IF

 

[Ahisaac]

Pretty clear that if the bug fix resolves the issue Elon referred to for HW2 vehicles, we may see AP functionality tomorrow. As for HW1 vehicles having to wait until February for 8.1...well, that's not good.

 

[Az_Rael]

Wonder when classic (non-AP) cars will start.

 

[bmah]

So it looks like a fairly significant upgrade to the 1.0 cars if the base Linux kernel is being updated as well....

Um, not necessarily. It's just the operating system kernel.

I used to do embedded appliances based on Linux and when I upgraded the kernel (or Linux distribution) there was almost zero way for the end-user to tell the difference. But it made life easier for a lot of the other developers because it fixed bugs (sometimes for which we had to do some convoluted workarounds), patched security holes, etc. Absent any statement from Tesla (or certain TMC forum members here "in the know") to the contrary, I would expect the Linux kernel upgrade for the Tesla to be the same.

EDIT: We know there will be other significant changes in 8.1...I'm just saying that the Linux kernel is not necessarily connected to those other changes.

Bruce.

 

[ccharleb]

@ccharleb - Cool posting the links to the forum posts. What code do you use to post that in the forum? Or are you manually posting the images and links yourself?

Just a "copy-paste" from twitter website... did nothing else.

 

[drklain]

Thanks

For @bmah - I realize that a kernel upgrade in and of itself does not change what the users see, but still would call it a significant upgrade because the kernel currently in use is what? Three years old?

I also believe at some point Tesla said there were features for the pre-AP2 cars that were waiting for the new kernel and at least one reference to a new/faster browser.

Of course, none of us know what will be in 8.1, but I'd still guess that it will,have some changed the user community will consider significant and classify as "good" or "bad".

 

[Ahisaac]

Um, not necessarily. It's just the operating system kernel.

I used to do embedded appliances based on Linux and when I upgraded the kernel (or Linux distribution) there was almost zero way for the end-user to tell the difference. But it made life easier for a lot of the other developers because it fixed bugs (sometimes for which we had to do some convoluted workarounds), patched security holes, etc. Absent any statement from Tesla (or certain TMC forum members here "in the know") to the contrary, I would expect the Linux kernel upgrade for the Tesla to be the same.

EDIT: We know there will be other significant changes in 8.1...I'm just saying that the Linux kernel is not necessarily connected to those other changes.

Bruce.

Thanks for the background. Question for you: I thought Tesla used a Ubunto OS (I'm tracking on the relationship with Linux). Any insight there? I see a lot of similarities in the UI to that of another Ubunto-based system I was involved with, called Mezzanine (Oblong.com).

 

[bmah]

Thanks for the background. Question for you: I thought Tesla used a Ubunto OS (I'm tracking on the relationship with Linux). Any insight there? I see a lot of similarities in the UI to that of another Ubunto-based system I was involved with, called Mezzanine (Oblong.com).

Unlike some other TMC members, I don't have first-hand knowledge, but I believe that yes the Tesla CID uses a modified Ubuntu distribution, with the UI being Qt-based. (Remember there are multiple computers in the Tesla.)

Off-topic but marginally related: I recently flew on a United Airlines 777-200. Their seat back entertainment systems apparently use some Ubuntu-like Linux distribution, because at one point in the flight they had to reset all of the setback systems. So we were treated to the sight of several hundred displays showing Linux kernel bootup messages (on some screens, such as my son's, this happened multiple times), running a bunch of shell scripts (some of which spewed a stream of error messages onto the console), then starting up an X window server with a familiar-looking stipple background pattern and "X" cursor before the entertainment GUI application kicked in.

Bruce.

 

[drklain]

+1 -- there are actually several United Seatback entertainment systems out there right now (basically the generation 1 units where you had a choice of about 7 video channels and 9 audio, the generation 2 units where you can choose from a library of about 60 movies/TV shows, the newer generation 3 units where the library is expanded to something like 200 movies/TV shows/some games and (further complicating it all) the former Continental long Haul planes (particularly the 757s and 767s) which have a totally different interface and was made by a totally different company than the one United used.

In it's newer planes (and as it refreshes the interiors of older planes), United has gone to a "screenless" system where you connect to an onboard WiFi router that ties into an onboard server with a variety of entertainment. Interestingly, the domestic planes (I'm thinking of the new 737-900s) have a much reduced library compared to the international, wide-body jets I most frequently fly.

As Bruce points out, all the systems use a variant of Linux and I do believe it is an Ubuntu variant. Watching the kernel load is always interesting when they reboot the system because (if you catch it) you can see how old the kernel is and how far behind current versions. It's these old kernels that are part of the reason several hackers have publicly tweeted about hacking the United entertainment system in flight....but United seems to consider it a stand-alone system and not worthy of maintaining from a security perspective.

Like his son, I had the fun of not only watching a full re-boot about a month ago on a flight from DC to Dublin -- I had the fun of having it finish the boot, then initiate a reboot again in a continuous cycle for a 7 hour flight. All other monitors on the flight worked after they rebooted the system. Mine wouldn't stop the reboot system and the purser ultimately said there was nothing she could do. Could also not dim/turn off the screen so I had a fun overnight with a black screen and constantly scrolling/flashing linux kernel scripts running. That's not fun!

As an aside, part of the reason they are going to the new "BYOD" streaming system is the cost of maintaining/replacing those seatback screens. At one point they were something like $1000 each and people were breaking them all the time!

I'm not aware of which variant of Linux Tesla is running on the back end and have no special knowledge there.

 

[bmah]

Thanks

For @bmah - I realize that a kernel upgrade in and of itself does not change what the users see, but still would call it a significant upgrade because the kernel currently in use is what? Three years old?

I also believe at some point Tesla said there were features for the pre-AP2 cars that were waiting for the new kernel and at least one reference to a new/faster browser.

Of course, none of us know what will be in 8.1, but I'd still guess that it will,have some changed the user community will consider significant and classify as "good" or "bad".

My impression is that the kernel is fairly ancient. (Other people have first-hand knowledge of this, I don't.)

Elon once tweeted something about a better browser and a newer kernel....let me see if I can dig it up...

Elon Musk on Twitter

Some people have interpreted this tweet as meaning that a better browser and a newer kernel are coupled in some way. The plans might be to release them together but there isn't necessarily a causal relationship between the two.

I don't necessarily have any better insights than anybody else on this stuff. But I'd just like to caution people about making too many assumptions about how pieces of the software stack fit together, setting expectations about when they might see updates to them, and then seeing those expectations not met.

Bruce.

 

[andrewket]

+1 -- there are actually several United Seatback entertainment systems out there right now (basically the generation 1 units where you had a choice of about 7 video channels and 9 audio, the generation 2 units where you can choose from a library of about 60 movies/TV shows, the newer generation 3 units where the library is expanded to something like 200 movies/TV shows/some games and (further complicating it all) the former Continental long Haul planes (particularly the 757s and 767s) which have a totally different interface and was made by a totally different company than the one United used.

In it's newer planes (and as it refreshes the interiors of older planes), United has gone to a "screenless" system where you connect to an onboard WiFi router that ties into an onboard server with a variety of entertainment. Interestingly, the domestic planes (I'm thinking of the new 737-900s) have a much reduced library compared to the international, wide-body jets I most frequently fly.

As Bruce points out, all the systems use a variant of Linux and I do believe it is an Ubuntu variant. Watching the kernel load is always interesting when they reboot the system because (if you catch it) you can see how old the kernel is and how far behind current versions. It's these old kernels that are part of the reason several hackers have publicly tweeted about hacking the United entertainment system in flight....but United seems to consider it a stand-alone system and not worthy of maintaining from a security perspective.

Like his son, I had the fun of not only watching a full re-boot about a month ago on a flight from DC to Dublin -- I had the fun of having it finish the boot, then initiate a reboot again in a continuous cycle for a 7 hour flight. All other monitors on the flight worked after they rebooted the system. Mine wouldn't stop the reboot system and the purser ultimately said there was nothing she could do. Could also not dim/turn off the screen so I had a fun overnight with a black screen and constantly scrolling/flashing linux kernel scripts running. That's not fun!

As an aside, part of the reason they are going to the new "BYOD" streaming system is the cost of maintaining/replacing those seatback screens. At one point they were something like $1000 each and people were breaking them all the time!

I'm not aware of which variant of Linux Tesla is running on the back end and have no special knowledge there.

I have no problem with bring your own screen, but for heavens sake provide electricity! On several planes that I have been on recently using BYOS, they didn't bother to wire outlets, either. Worse, the codec united is using for video is a power hog on iOS.

So you're using your tablet or phone and draining the battery. The planes that provide screens also provide outlets. Duh.

 

[drklain]

No doubt about it. There is at least one series of planes with the BYOD technology (can't remember which one as I fly about 300K miles per year and they all blend together) where there are power outlets in first class but not in economy. My sense (and I have no inside knowledge about United, I'm just a person who spends waaaay too much time on airplanes) is that:

(1) power outlets were initially rolled out in some first class cabins as an amenity for people using laptops.
(2) United rolled out the "video library/video on demand" gear in business class and first class when they rolled out the new lie-flat sleeper pods in the late 2000's (I think the whole long-haul fleet had them by around 2010 or so, but don't hold me to that...I do remember flying on 777's sometimes and it was a toss-up as to which version of business class (the barca lounger or the lie-flat) you would get, and there were still disappointments if there was a 777 equipment change as they were rolled out to the fleet as the planes went through major maintenance. The lie-flats also had power outlets. At this point economy still had the "8 channels of movies" (or however many there were and no power outlets.
(3) United started re-configuring their 777's economy class seats into a new configuration going to the sucky 3-3-3 from the old 2-4-2 (getting them another seat per row in economy). When they went to the new seats, they went with one power outlet for every section of 3 seats and went to the touch screen video-on-demand seats from an onboard library for economy to match up to what business and first had. It think this started happening around 2012 or so...
(4) Domestically, United had the old style "drop down from the ceiling screens" for movies on the various planes (basically all the narrow-bodies plus the domestically-configured wide-bodies. At some point a year or two ago, they started getting the larger-capacity/longer range narrow-bodies (I'm thinking 737-800s and 900s). Those planes packed yet MORE seats into economy in the 3-3 configuration with the new "low profile" seats as well as only 2 bathrooms for economy located in the back of the plane. These planes were all delivered with the "BYOD" technology.
(5) In the last year, they have started retrofitting the rest of the domestic fleet with the "BYOD" technology as they already had onboard satellite internet via wifi and it was simply a matter of installing the updated routers and the video server.
(6) In the last six months or so (may have been sooner, but I don't fly a lot domestically), I've also noticed the "BYOD" video technology on some United Express airplanes as well.

In general, it appears that power outlets are being installed as the planes go in for refurbishment and get the new, low profile seats (which also allows them to fit one or 2 more rows of seats into economy). For what it is worth, if you don't have a power outlet but have a screen, some of the screens have a USB port which is powered and can charge a device. I can't remember if they are the 2.1Amp ports which can charge an iPad effectively or are the older style, lower amperage ports.

Can you tell I spend too much time in commercial airplanes?

To keep this Tesla related, at IAD the parking garage has EV charging spaces right next to the handicapped spaces and I walked past all those Teslas and drooled for a very long time. Interestingly enough, a few years ago those spots were generally all Teslas or maybe all Teslas with a plug-in Prius. Lately I've been seeing all sorts of models where I didn't even know a plug-in existed. Last week I saw a Cadillac SUV (maybe an Escalade variant?) in one of the spots and plugged in. Alas, there are also very rarely any open "EV spots" in the garage any more as well...

Bruce -- no disagreement that kernel upgrade does not equal faster browser or big upgrades. I just noted in Elon's tweet (in response to the AP1 cars and 8.1 where he said their variant of 8.1 was being delayed until late Jan and would be with the kernel upgrade) that the two were coming out at the same time and that 8.1 was likely a fairly big upgrade for those cars. I guess if nothing else, the fact we are going to a new decimal point version means it is not as big as going to 8.0 but is more than going to 8.0.XX!).

All good here!

 

[Hrhkee]

This is beta testing. Why 1000 cars and which 1000. How do I get on that list?

 

[wesley888]

This is beta testing. Why 1000 cars and which 1000. How do I get on that list?

You have to be in California.