Negative samples are not interesting. Obviously if it was happening all the time that would be a more serious problem. This problem has been reported multiple times on this forum. It's a matter of time basically.
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ditto.
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VERY close call today on snowy/icy Interstate 40
- Thread starter tinm
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Negative samples are not interesting. Obviously if it was happening all the time that would be a more serious problem. This problem has been reported multiple times on this forum. It's a matter of time basically.
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ditto.
I got Nokian WR G3 as the R2 was sold out across North America back in November - so was I told.
i have no experience with R2 but the G3 seems to be ok in the last two storms including the snow/rain combination last week. I could feel the wheels slipping a little when going off tracks (made by passing cars earlier) but I was in control as long as I hold steering steady. I forgot to set regen to low but was fine and no problem stopping and go. When this wears out, I may buy R2 for next set, depends.
i have no experience with R2 but the G3 seems to be ok in the last two storms including the snow/rain combination last week. I could feel the wheels slipping a little when going off tracks (made by passing cars earlier) but I was in control as long as I hold steering steady. I forgot to set regen to low but was fine and no problem stopping and go. When this wears out, I may buy R2 for next set, depends.
I know and I was very surprised as well because I assumed stability control and traction control was acting on regen. In all other situations it does an amazing job. It's works so well and smooth and does an excellent job keeping the car stable even in crazy slippery situations. Probably because you can adjust an electric motor much faster and more accurate than an ICE or apply brakes. When I accelerate and it's slippery, I can see the traction control light flash. During regen, even when it causes major slipping of the wheels, it never flashes. The only reduction happening is the reduced wheel rotation that automatically causes regen to be reduced, but that's not keeping you on the road. Maybe the old cars (pre AP hardware) can't do it.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
These negative samples are from D models and do indicate that it does seem to be better in ice and snow (as one might expect). The people having problems have RWD cars.
I'd suggest it's the more aggressive drivers and those without severe service tires and RWD that have problem. I've had no problems with RWD, standard regen, and severe service tires. During the first winter when the Primacies were new, they were just barely adequate. Second winter I switched to WR-g3, they are still on this winter but so far there haven't been any winter conditions.
I have a dedicated set of X-ice for the winter. (This is a must for the rear-wheel drive Model S.) Yes, you need to set the regen on Low , but most of all , SLOW DOWN when in any slick condition. I guarantee you, if I was in the car with the OP, I would have told him in no uncertain terms to "slow the **** down", way before the fishtail ever happened. Slow and steady while in the crap!!
I'll add to the general consensus that this situation could have been mitigated by proper tires. "All-season" tires are not. I have a set of Nokian WRG3 on my RWD P85 and have been very pleased with their snow/ice performance. The real benefit of these tires is that they're suitable for year-round use. When your tires need to be replaced, look into the Nokian.
More importantly, good job on the recovery, I'm glad you and your's are safe.
Here's a video from a couple days ago. Icy conditions, rear moved a bit but it was a non-issue with the WRG3.
More importantly, good job on the recovery, I'm glad you and your's are safe.
Here's a video from a couple days ago. Icy conditions, rear moved a bit but it was a non-issue with the WRG3.
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Duck-taping the problematic behavior, regardless of side benefits.
I mean really a big "duh" that any given car with better tires handles better.
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Did someone say slow down? No stability control. Zero panic moments. The Tesla experience should be superior. Guess what, if you can do this, then when you decide to get on the road and drive half the speed limit it will be even safer.
Even coasting can cause this type of incident. Even with the right tyres and AWD.
I used to own a Fiat Panda 4x4 and I had quality M&S tyres on it. I was driving through the snow in France and eased off the throttle. The back end lost grip and I spun through 360 degrees in an instant.
As soon as you decelerate, whether through coasting or braking, weight transfers from back to front and the rear end will lose grip. The only answer is to try to anticipate far enough ahead that you need to slow down and do it under slight accelerator input.
Two questions come to mind from your initial comment: 1) What, precisely is the problematic behavior to which you refer? 2) Are you suggesting that one should forgo proper winter tires when driving in snow/ice?
As to the second comment it seems as though you've misunderstood my purpose of my comment. Most/many people see "all-season" or "M+S" on a tire and they assume the tire is designed to use in the snow. It may be obvious to you and I that "all-season" tires are usually quite bad in the snow but it doesn't appear that it was obvious to OP.
In-ability to have a "default" position that is no input to wheels. You have to feather and find the dead spot, wherever it is. On a manual transmission car this is declutch.
No, I'm suggesting that's an entirely different discussion.
See above.
Thanks for the clarification! Makes more sense now. Yes, I would agree that there should be a "regen off" mode for snow/ice driving.
Zybane
Member
Incorrect. In a 2WD vehicle, whether it be electric or ICE, while letting off the accelerator, all of the drive-line drag trying to slow the car down get's transmitted through only two tire contact patches. In an AWD vehicle, it get's dispersed over four tire contact patches. Also, AWD helps you maintain traction in corners and accelerating out of corners. In a RWD vehicle, it's much easier to unsettle the suspension and weight distribution of a vehicle. Steering a RWD vehicle on snow/ice becomes much less effective than steering an AWD vehicle on snow/ice and will under-steer, both with light throttle application.
"False sense of security" isn't a hindrance of AWD. That's a hindrance of the person who doesn't know what they are doing. No RWD vehicle can even come close to an AWD vehicle with winter tires in the snow/ice. For anyone to imply that a RWD vehicle is superior to an AWD vehicle in winter driving doesn't have much of an understanding of physics.
To the original poster, sometimes light acceleration while trying to counter the slide with steering inputs is highly effective.
It doesn't take long to get the feel for it. It's never been an issue for me, but if you just took delivery of your Tesla on a snow covered day, it could be. However, that would go for pretty much any other car on the road as each has it's own handling quirks.
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This sounds nice, but most of the vehicles I see in the ditch are all wheel drive vehicles.
Zybane
Member
Anecdotal evidence. As a matter of fact, RWD (besides single wheel drive) is the worst type of drive-line to have for winter driving. For 2WD, front wheel drive is superior. Even though FWD is superior to RWD in winter conditions, they still both take quite a back seat to AWD.
Man this snow storm just won't quit, I hope I can make it home and I wish I had a RWD car! (Said no one ever with a brain)
It is obvious that winter tires and AWD can help push the limits of when you'll lose traction, but they are no guarantee for uneventful driving during all winter conditions.
Going slowly down an icy hill last winter the rear of my P85D on Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires fishtailed due to regen. Careful acceleration was not an option due to a crossing road with barrier at the bottom of the hill, but I was able to quickly set regen to low and the car recovered.
I am therefore wondering whether the potentially more pronounced regen in the stronger rear motor in Performance dual motor Ss could therefore lead to similar scenarios as in the rear-wheel models, which may not occur in the more "balanced" 85D and 90Ds.
Going slowly down an icy hill last winter the rear of my P85D on Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires fishtailed due to regen. Careful acceleration was not an option due to a crossing road with barrier at the bottom of the hill, but I was able to quickly set regen to low and the car recovered.
I am therefore wondering whether the potentially more pronounced regen in the stronger rear motor in Performance dual motor Ss could therefore lead to similar scenarios as in the rear-wheel models, which may not occur in the more "balanced" 85D and 90Ds.
You'd think the AWD would have active torque vectoring like the Quattro, even with that 40/60(rear, with electronic differential) split S4 was weaker in snow than my Haldex (Front biased, rear on demand) R32, S60R, and Turbo X (electronic rear diff) rides.
+4 for the X-Ice.
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