Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[AnOutsider]

Haha, don't have respect for me ohmman, have pity. On the way back from the Volvo dealership (where she was decidedly unimpressed with the rear seating in the XC90), my wife fell in love with the new 2016 Honda Pilot. God help me, I can't blame her. Quality of interior is about on par with a Model S, so not much "luxury" being lost there. Gobs of space, and 48,600 with all the bells and whistles she desired (including Bluray/DVD player with rear screens and separate audio for the front and rear passengers).

Talk about decisions. Getting our X deposit would just about let us walk out of the dealership with that. No EV mode, but she's never been too impressed by that anyway (and was dreading having to keep the Q7 around for trips the X couldn't make).

Le sigh.

 

[X-Wing]

The swivel seat arrangement of the Mercedes V class is exactly what i was hoping for in the Model x

So glad that I am not alone on this. Our of curiosity, may I ask why you also desire the rotating 2nd row?

For me it is for business purposes. I can have my assistant drive while I sit in the 2nd row and interact with the clients as we move from location to location.

 

[AnOutsider]

A quick search of the Model S subforum for "cancel signature" revealed no cancellations that I could find. Just a few people threatening to cancel if Tesla couldn't deliver their Sig S within a reasonable time, and before Production cars starting shipping, as well as much knashing of teeth over the "Sig tax" which doesn't seem to exist on the X.

Oh, and also this gem (note the poster). "Amped up" would be one way to describe that, I suppose.
So, What exactly is the value of a Signature Model S?

We don't know that there is or isn't a sig tax on the Model X. In fact, I was told by a rep "I don't know, but I suspect there is some premium for getting your car first and owning a collectors edition".

As for the thread, I know I made it. I still even bring it up to this day. Model S signature owners got hosed IMO, and then double-hosed when we were promised more and not delivered. Around the time of that post, not only did we have the sig tax, but for me personally, Tesla has basically lost my car and had no communication. I believe I was sig 400 something, and my VIN in the end was nearly 1100. Oh yeah I was frustrated, but that's been covered, and I still don't think there were many S cancellations discussed here.

 

[ohmman]

..my wife fell in love with the new 2016 Honda Pilot.

We have an Odyssey. Honda has not, in any recent timeframe, been accused of making anything less than great automobiles. If you get the Pilot, I'm certain it'll treat you well. But yeah, I understand. You'll effectively be in our position - a Tesla sedan and a Honda ICE. It's really tough to get in the ICE unless you can't make it work in the MS. And for me, the worst part is when I come outside with my fob, and realize my wife's already gone in the MS. :crying:

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

There was some frustration back then with the S but, not much talk of outright cancellations. As noted, there were no real (EV) alternatives back then.

Now, for those who don't have a Tesla yet, the S may work. For those looking for true utility, there are PHEV alternatives or (gulp) regular ICE options out of necessity.

To be fair though, the membership of TMC was much smaller back then and we mostly had hardcore EV enthusiasts on here.

 

[scottf200]

We don't know that there is or isn't a sig tax on the Model X. In fact, I was told by a rep "I don't know, but I suspect there is some premium for getting your car first and owning a collectors edition".

Where is the "sig tax" at in this comparison to the Model S priced recently on the build screen?

Image: http://i.imgur.com/4RcTWLo.png

 

[neroden]

Look people this is a 100K+ SUV it is not meant to carry dirty wood logs around.

For reference, I haul garbage in my Model S. (I did get the rubber trunk mat before doing so.) There are some very practical-minded people around here. I've also carried a floor lamp in the Model S by folding the back seat down...

 

[TexasEV]

As one of those hardcore EV enthusiasts, I'm sorry to see anyone cancel a X reservation in favor of buying an ICE, but it will work out OK for Tesla. That spot in the production line can be used to build a car to display in a store or for test drives, and generate many sales from each car that was cancelled.

 

[neroden]

Where is the "sig tax" at in this comparison to the Model S priced recently on the build screen?

What's going on is that the Sig is potentially a good deal if you want literally all the options it has -- which was the case with the Model S Sigs. If there is even one option which you don't care about, it looks like it may be cheaper to buy a non-sig. And it'll probably be more reliable due to coming off the production line later. I was told at the time that most people getting Sig Model Ses were just concerned about getting the car sooner, and as such I dropped back to a standard reservation.

People with Model X reservations would be *well advised* to do the same thing. The primary reason to get a Sig is if you're in a hurry and willing to pay extra for that.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

On the way back from the Volvo dealership (where she was decidedly unimpressed with the rear seating in the XC90), my wife fell in love with the new 2016 Honda Pilot. God help me, I can't blame her. Quality of interior is about on par with a Model S, so not much "luxury" being lost there. Gobs of space, and 48,600 with all the bells and whistles she desired (including Bluray/DVD player with rear screens and separate audio for the front and rear passengers).

Le sigh.

Maybe Tesla should start stealing employees from Honda.

If it's one thing Honda does exceptionally well, it's utility vehicles. Pilot, CR-V, and Fit have fantastic interior layout and features. People have likened the Fit to Doctor Who's TARDIS: small on the outside and huge on the inside. The Fit can swallow an absurd amount of cargo for a subcompact hatch.

I have no doubt that Model X is a fantastic people mover, but there is also no doubt that they have messed up the "utility" part of SUV, and the cancellations here are pretty good evidence of that. Let's hope the company can iterate quickly and provide options to satisfy customers.

 

[AnOutsider]

Where is the "sig tax" at in this comparison to the Model S priced recently on the build screen?

Scott, AFAIK that's speculation. Good speculation based on what we know, but speculation. We don't know what the non sig pricing is yet to say definitively either way.

As one of those hardcore EV enthusiasts, I'm sorry to see anyone cancel a X reservation in favor of buying an ICE, but it will work out OK for Tesla. That spot in the production line can be used to build a car to display in a store or for test drives, and generate many sales from each car that was cancelled.

I may be reading this wrong, but it's coming across as if those that cancel are in some way wrong or looking to harm Tesla. I'd actually say the opposite is true for everyone that has posted so far: they REALLY wanted it to make sense, but it's Tesla that didn't meet needs or expectations of some.

Either way, I'm sure you're right and Tesla will be selling these things like hotcakes, and those cancelling will be a footnote.

 

[AlMc]

Surprised nobody mentioned this obvious Freudian typo. :crying:

I did notice that and shed one or two more on Al's behalf.

I would love to say that was planned...But we all know I am not that smart:wink:

 

[benzer]

chatting executive?

I disagree that 10k lbs was promised. One chatting executive does not a promise make.

But of course, expectations have been set - Tesla said a couple of years ago that the Model X would have "class leading towing capacity", which suggests closer to 10,000 lbs. Then there was the executive that indicated 5,000-10,000 lbs. It's fair to have hoped for closer to 10k lbs, but it doesn't quite qualify as a promise. I'd say my expectations for towing capacity were met, but only by the smallest margin possible.

Look more like Jim Chen was doing a presentation on Tesla the company and its products on a stage instead of a simple chat.

 

[TexasEV]

I may be reading this wrong, but it's coming across as if those that cancel are in some way wrong or looking to harm Tesla. I'd actually say the opposite is true for everyone that has posted so far: they REALLY wanted it to make sense, but it's Tesla that didn't meet needs or expectations of some.

Either way, I'm sure you're right and Tesla will be selling these things like hotcakes, and those cancelling will be a footnote.

I wasn't implying intent at all. In most cases I think a company would prefer to not have cancellation of orders, but with the Model X I don't think it will matter. Analysts who try to draw conclusions from estimating cancellations will be proven wrong.

 

[scottf200]

Scott, AFAIK that's speculation. Good speculation based on what we know, but speculation. We don't know what the non sig pricing is yet to say definitively either way.

But my confusion is Elon said the Model X would be $5K more than the equivalent Model S. I showed a spreadsheet above where the Sig Model X is priced virtually the same as the recently built Model S. To me that demonstrates there is no X Sig tax since it matches the S. What am I missing?

 

[benzer]

Anyone thinking an X would tow 10,000 lbs never looked at a trailer tow rating chart. I could not find a 2500 Denali listed. If you put on heavy duty tow options you can get a Sierra over 10,000lbs. The tow capacity is also reduced by what ever you put in the truck.

Towing Capacity Chart | Vehicle Towing Capacity | GMC

I was surprised Tesla pushed tow capacity to 5000lbs. I expected maybe 3500lbs.

So I guess Jim Chen the Tesla VP just decided to make some unrealistic and impossible claims on towing capacity without any data or testing to back his statements in the presentation?

He made those statements without any background knowledge from dealing with Elon or the Tesla engineers about a product that has the attention of the many potential customers in the market for an SUV?

 

[neroden]

So I guess Jim Chen the Tesla VP just decided to make some unrealistic and impossible claims on towing capacity without any data or testing to back his statements in the presentation?

He made those statements without any background knowledge from dealing with Elon or the Tesla engineers about a product that has the attention of the many potential customers in the market for an SUV?

You know, that DOES sound exactly like typical Tesla Motors Inc. communications. :wink: Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

 

[engle]

Some Volvos Now Manufactured In China while None Are Made in USA

We ordered the X the night of the reveal several years ago, and placed an order for a T8 this summer. We have a scheduled delivery date on our T8 in December, so time to decide.....

Model X (Reservation #2xx)

That's curious (although kind of a moot point now). I didn't go to the reveal in Hawthorne, but entered my $5K CC info and hit the reservation button at 12:01 PM on the website that next day. I received reservation #83. I wonder why you got #2xx?

As far as the T8 goes... Full disclosure: TSLA stockholder since 2012. Own no stock in Volvo's parent holding company.

Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely [source: Wikipedia.org]

Personally, as an American citizen, I would buy a Tesla before I would EVER even consider buying a product from a company that is owned by a Chinese firm. It's nothing personal. In fact, my wife is Taiwanese-American. I spent 3 weeks in China this past May touring the country. I had a great time except the major cities are so polluted I wondered how anybody can live there.

IMHO, Americans need to support our American economy and American manufacturing jobs. Geely has already started exported Chinese-made Volvos to the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/asia/shanghai-auto-show-volvo/

They don't manufacture anything in the USA:

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/volvos-manufactured-a01f671a0263da62

Unlike 10 other non-US brands:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_plants_in_the_United_States

 

[AlMc]

That's curious (although kind of a moot point now). I didn't go to the reveal in Hawthorne, but entered my $5K CC info and hit the reservation button at 12:01 PM on the website that next day. I received reservation #83. I wonder why you got #2xx?

As far as the T8 goes... Full disclosure: TSLA stockholder since 2012. Own no stock in Volvo's parent holding company.

Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely [source: Wikipedia.org]

Personally, as an American citizen, I would buy a Tesla before I would EVER even consider buying a product from a company that is owned by a Chinese firm. It's nothing personal. In fact, my wife is Taiwanese-American. I spent 3 weeks in China this past May touring the country. I had a great time except the major cities are so polluted I wondered how anybody can live there.

IMHO, Americans need to support our American economy and American manufacturing jobs. Geely has already started exported Chinese-made Volvos to the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/asia/shanghai-auto-show-volvo/

They don't manufacture anything in the USA:

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/volvos-manufactured-a01f671a0263da62

Unlike 10 other non-US brands:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_plants_in_the_United_States

I've bought and leased Mercedes SUVs that are built in Vance, Alabama.

Out of curiosity, I checked out this Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine Plug-in Hybrid.

Volvo XC90 T8 Plug-In Hybrid Compared to Model X Pure BEV:

• T8 has a 400 hp 2.0 liter direct-injected turbo & supercharged internal combustion engine I certainly don't want polluting the environment whenever it kicks in. Nor do I want to have to go to a gas station to fill it up, or pay the dealer to service it.
• Both can tow 5,000 lbs.
• T8 electric-only range is 25 miles which is a joke, and it also says "save mode allows for optimal charge of battery while driving ensuring battery energy level provides about 12 miles of pure electric driving". Impressed! (not) X P90D range is 250 EPA, while 90D is 257.
• T8 has Start/Stop Tech to turn off engine at traffic lights so you don't pollute the environment when you're not going anywhere. So does my Mercedes. ICE desperation!
• T8 has Air Suspension option, but no GPS-based automation like the X.
• Of course T8 has no clean air system like the X.
• T8 has "Roll(over) Stability Control (RSC)" which I'm sure they need since they don't have the X's very low center of gravity
• T6 EPA is 20 (City)/25 (Highway)/22 (Combined). X P90D is
• I didn't see any published T8 safety ratings?
• T8 0-60 mph: 5.9 sec. X 90D: 4.8 sec. X P90D: 3.8 sec., 3.2 sec. with Ludicrous Speed Upgrade
• T8 is missing many other X features that are too numerous to list here.

Volvo XC90 T8 base price is less expensive, but like most things in life, you get what you pay for.

This vehicle will be minor competition for the X, which I believe will eat Benz ML, GL; BMW X5, X6; Lexus RX/GX/LX; and Audi Q7's lunch. :biggrin:

All very true. The model X/TM would eat a bigger 'lunch' if it offered second row seat choices now...one of which would add utility to the X by folding to give a larger flat surface. I have been, and continue to be a TSLA holder.

 

[X-Wing]

• Of course T8 has no clean air system like the X.

Actually the new Volvo XC90 does have a clean air system. They are just not as good at marketing it and its called the CleanZone air purification system.