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Video of a Model S being stolen in the UK

Discussion in 'Model S' started by .jg., Oct 22, 2018.

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  1. .jg.

    .jg. Member

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  2. berkeley_ecar

    berkeley_ecar S 90D (fully loaded) delivered 18 Mar 2017

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    Another precaution is to purchase the new 80-bit keylength keyfobs...
     
    • Disagree x 1
  3. edlin303

    edlin303 Member

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    I really like the idea of hiding a tile in the car. I always struggled to think of use cases for them that would help me, and that one seems pretty clever.
     
  4. kirkbauer

    kirkbauer Member

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    What do you mean a tile?
     
  5. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    Tile is only useful if it comes by a phone with tile tracking enabled. Way overhyped if you ask me.
     
    • Like x 3
  6. Jhelin

    Jhelin Member

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    Wouldn't have helped in this case as the thieves used a relay which makes the owners keyfob talk to the car as if the keyfob was beside the driver door.
     
    • Like x 4
  7. iCharge

    iCharge Member

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  8. berkeley_ecar

    berkeley_ecar S 90D (fully loaded) delivered 18 Mar 2017

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    Ah, yes, a relay attack -- so the solution is to store the key at a substantial distance from the car, or (better yet), keep the fob in a RF-blocking container such as a small metal box?. The longer-key-length fob is still a good idea for the decryption attack that has been successful in Europe, no? A bluetooth tile is going to be useless for tracking.
     
  9. bmah

    bmah Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums

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    Moderator note: Merging two threads discussing the same incident.

    Bruce.
     
  10. Jhelin

    Jhelin Member

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    Yep, RF-blocking container or PIN to drive or turning passive entry off would have thwarted these thieves.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. KArnold

    KArnold Member

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    As I understand the hack, they still have to decrypt the old 40-bit key to relay which is not hard to do with a "rainbow table" of sorts. If so, the 80-bit encryption seems like it would help immensely. Do I not understand this hack correctly?
     
    • Disagree x 1
  12. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    This particular “hack” doesn’t do any decoding. It is amplifying/relaying the existing codes.

    The 40 v 80 bit hack that used the rainbow table was effectively making a clone of the key that could be used anywhere.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. Jhelin

    Jhelin Member

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    Yep, this isn't really a hack at all. It's like forwarding mail, you don't have to open the envelope to send it somewhere else.
     
  14. KArnold

    KArnold Member

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    They may still be trying to determine the details. But in looking at one site - Hackers Can Steal a Tesla Model S in Seconds by Cloning Its Key Fob - it seems to imply the 80-bit decryption is required and more problematic. No?

     
  15. iCharge

    iCharge Member

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    @mods Thanks for merging.

    I think the message is pretty clear, use that PIN, how ever old school it may sound, it works.
    And strongly consider turning off Passive Entry.

    its really a dance of security vs convenience, same as what we witnessed in the smartphone industry.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. iCharge

    iCharge Member

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    I'd rather say, security is a user issue, Tesla **has** provided the means, the user chose not to take advantage of it.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    100% agree with you. The 80 bit key fob is better and harder to clone. But the clone process is not what they used in this particular theft, or at least it does not look like it to me.
     
    • Like x 3
  18. iCharge

    iCharge Member

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    to me 40 vs 80 is moot point, why add extra cost to an item when user is not using existing features .
    see above
     
  19. iCharge

    iCharge Member

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    you are correct, this is relay attack, like someone said above, akin to forwarding your mail. dont need to open to forward
     

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