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Video of accident shows incapacitated driver using AP nag defeat device

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bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
Due to my hubris, I had an Autopilot accident when 'auto-steer' failed to come on after a double-tap. TACC worked but I didn't notice the blue lines were gone so I let the car drive over a curb. No visible body damage and the air bags did not deploy but the passenger side, wheel rims and tires, will have to be replaced. The tires are still holding air but the car remains parked until repaired.

Tesla advised:

Thank you for contacting Tesla in regards to your tires.

So we recommend you find a local tire shop to repair this. There is a foam insert on the inside of the tires that they need to cut out in order to patch your tires.

Please do this at your convenience.

Best regards

I don't think they understood my original note. Regardless, I have a plan:
  1. Photos to get estimates at Costco and Firestone - discuss lead times and their ability and willingness to do Model 3 alignment.
  2. Estimate from Tire Rack for wheels and tires. Replace tires as I have the jack adapters.
The Tesla dash cam stopped recording "Recent" videos about an hour or so before hitting the curb. So losing 'auto-steer' restart in Autopilot may be related. However, I turned on "Fred" a couple of days earlier to mute some of the alarms and that may also have contributed.

I have a legacy dash cam set up in the cabin to record video; audio; GPS metrics, and; 3-axis acceleration. Here is the narrative under the public YouTube:

Video recorded at 2 frames/second so playback is hurried. Adjust playback speed to slow; "SPACE" halts; "," backup one frame, and "." forwards one frame. Use embedded time stamps:

23:52:29 (hh:mm:ss) - distant car hits brake lights at green traffic light
23:52:33 - hit brakes to slow approach which turns off Autopilot
23:52:42 - lead car turns so reach up to 'double-tap' back into Autopilot
23:52:49 - I failed to notice a Auto-steer down, traffic aware cruise control is OK
23:52:51 - "Fred" on, I failed to notice close approach to curb
23:53:00 - Car steered to curb where bad things happened
23:53:01 - Significant impact, no air bags but rim and likely tire damage


The rest are my lame attempts to figure out what broke and drive home.​

Given moderator sensitivity about some subjects, I recommend Google my YouTube channel to see the video.

Bob Wilson
 

derotam

Member
Oct 31, 2018
847
795
Oak Hill, VA
Watched the video... Where were you looking when you hit the curb? Seems like you were pretty distracted at the time of curb hit. ..in my opinion. You also failed to notice the car twice moving you back into the lane with the active lane departure assist. This movement should have given you notice that something was amiss as it was a straight road and there shouldn't have been any major autosteer(if it had been engaged) movements. There were also pretty much constant alert notifications on the screen leading up to the crash.

Sorry you hit the curb. Looks like you just weren't paying attention in general.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,831
13,548
San Diego
Yeah, I guess I need to view the video on a full screen so I can go back and forth one frame at a time - but what were all those notifications before the accident? I could not read them. But they were nearly constant!

Also, do you mean “Joe Mode?”

Are you sure you don’t have any underbody damage? Seemed like kind of a decent sized curb (though need to watch the video on a computer as I said).

Glad there was no other traffic around with the careening across the road after coming off the curb.

Hope it all works out with just tire, rim, and alignment fixes. Hit a curb that hard and things can be kind of off...

It definitely does not seem like you were paying attention, as it was not just a glancing curb blow - should have been very avoidable. As asked above - where were you looking exactly?
 
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dmurphy

Buster: 11/25/14 - 6/20/21. So sorely missed.
Supporting Member
Dec 7, 2018
3,818
5,373
New Jersey - Morris County
It definitely does not seem like you were paying attention, as it was not just a glancing curb blow - should have been very avoidable. As asked above - where were you looking exactly?

Ahh, the dangers of mixing driver aid technology and microsleeps .... I'm glad Bob wasn't hurt -- nor his fellow drivers, pedestrians or anyone else. But this is a good lesson about why Autopilot is nothing more than a driver's AID -- we must remain vigilant, alert and aware at all times!


0511-1008-0622-5911_Cartoon_of_a_Man_Wearing_a_Nightcap_Sleepwalking_clipart_image.jpg
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,831
13,548
San Diego
Ahh, the dangers of mixing driver aid technology and microsleeps ....

No micro sleeps necessary for the harming of these wheels! Bob really did dodge a bullet if the only damage turns out to be alignment and rims.

  1. Estimate from Tire Rack for wheels and tires. Replace tires as I have the jack adapters.

You won’t be able to get the stock wheels that way (will you?), and it is pretty important with the SR to have that last bit of efficiency. I would see what you can find on eBay. Stock wheels are pretty often discarded. Might not be too much. Or maybe a local owners group, to save on shipping.

Can you post pictures of the damage?
Also what were all the other warnings that showed up, post accident?
Were you able to drive home?

I also want to point out that even if auto steer had been engaged, in this environment, it could steer out of the proper lane of travel unexpectedly at any time- so you have to be paying extra close attention if you choose to use it this way. It is not designed for proper function in this scenario. Extra lesson learned - always pay attention, even when Autosteer actually is engaged.
 
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bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
Can you post pictures of the damage?
Also what were all the other warnings that showed up, post accident?
Were you able to drive home?
I needed to wait for daylight as flash photos can be misleading.

There were no post accident warnings. It was my legacy dash cam in the cabin that captured the event so we have an objective record to review. The cabin cam is designed to capture driver, screen, and front windshield from the passenger left shoulder view.

I drove home and upon seeing the 6" section missing from each rim was surprised the tires still held air. I don't know if there was a slow leak but at this point, I consider the car 'down' until I get my replacements. It is a testimony to the rugged Tesla as lessor cars would have two flat tires.

I've put together a pair of wheels, tires, and tire pressure sensors at Tire Rack. I choose the lightest, affordable weight for both and plan to move the driver side rear tire to the front passenger. The new tires and wheels will go on the rear. Estimated cost ~$1,200.

Bob Wilson
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,831
13,548
San Diego
There were no post accident warnings.

Still puzzled by the sheer number of warnings on your screen then. I rarely see any notifications pop up so wondered what they were saying (as I can’t make it out).

I've put together a pair of wheels, tires, and tire pressure sensors at Tire Rack. I choose the lightest, affordable weight for both and plan to move the driver side rear tire to the front passenger. The new tires and wheels will go on the rear. Estimated cost ~$1,200.

You are going to take a hit on efficiency, though keeping the aeros on the front will make it pretty minimal hopefully.
 

bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
Also, do you mean “Joe Mode?”
Correct. I was posting in the house, not the car. <shrug>
Hit a curb that hard and things can be kind of off...
Since the car was controllable enough to reach home, the battery underside and suspension links are on my list to check. This suggests me doing the tire swap and install makes a little more sense. Yes, I have the jack point inserts.

Bob Wilson
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,752
3,486
Maine
Sorry about your damage. But, your car alerted, red lines and all, and corrected twice before the accident. You must have been very tired when it happened.

by default 2019-10-30 at 1.57.43 PM.jpg

Is something attached to your steering wheel? A set of nunchakus?
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,831
13,548
San Diego
I finally watched the rest of this video on a computer, and I feel like we're not getting the whole story here. Frankly, it kind of looks like you were drunk, or fell asleep immediately after (attempting) to re-engage autosteer (only got TACC as you said), or otherwise were incapacitated and unable to drive.

First, as mentioned above, there are multiple warnings from the car to take control prior to collision with the curb. It even shows the red line and a warning on the screen, and SUCCESSFULLY avoids a collision with the curb - in spite of your lead shot weight bag consistently dragging the steering wheel to the right. Which is interesting, because I would think that the car would interpret that as a deliberate steering input, and result in effective disabling of this critical safety feature. But maybe for ELDA (not sure which one triggered - LDA or ELDA) it doesn't care.

Second, after the first curb incident, at 23:53:00, you don't really even slow down - you seem to get to about 40mph, then speed up to 54mph, after veering all over the road! Very odd behavior after a collision with that sort of violent impact.

Third, as 23:53:11, you nearly hit the curb again.

Fourth, at 23:53:18, you are clearly awake and doing something, and you are all over the road, crossing into the right hand turn lane across the solid lines, etc.

Fifth, at 23:53:23, you appear to hit the curb AGAIN.

Sixth, at 23:53:36, you nearly hit the curb again.

Seventh, at 23:53:48, you nearly hit (or do hit) the curb again.

You finally come to a halt and attempt to address the situation at 23:53:55, nearly a full minute after the first impact.

Eighth, your attempts to address the situation on the screen appear to be a complete failure. You wander around the menus, and fail to really address anything. You go to the software update page for some reason. Then back to the service menu, and scroll around fruitlessly. You never exit the car to inspect the damage (which may have been a good call since you were stopped in the middle of the road). You do manage to engage the hazard lights in response to another vehicle.

Ninth, you continue your drive home (with your hazard lights still on), continuing to veer all over the road. You nearly hit the curb a few more times.

Tenth, at 23:57:05, you reset the MCU - in an attempt to clear the warnings, apparently - it seemed that you were unaware, actually, that you had hit the curb.

Eleventh, at 23:57:54, the video ends with you apparently about to drive over a virtual center median (solid yellow painted line blocked no-go area). Not clear if you did, as the video ends.

So, I have to say, it does not look like we are getting the whole story here. If you were not under the influence, I would immediately go to a doctor and have them assess whether it is safe to be driving and whether there is anything that can be done to improve your alertness. Fighter pilots use amphetamines, but I would not necessarily recommend that.
 
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bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
. . . it does not look like we are getting the whole story here.
We have the video which stands on its own.

IMHO, turning down the audio alerts, something I'd done a few days earlier, was a mistake. An older driver, I'm not used to driving 'off the screen' but the audio alerts work great even if startling to my wife. I should have left them full volume and will in the future. ("Don't worry baby, that is the car keeping us from an accident. It is the sound of safety.")

I've already ordered "Full Self Driving" and there was one report that braking would not knock it out of auto-steering. That too would have kept me in lane and home. Hopefully while repairing the rims and tires, as much functionality that works can be downloaded to my car.

Bob Wilson
 
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mreynolds767

Member
Jul 11, 2019
728
403
Boston
Could not easily google the Video to watch it but what did pop up with similar stories from the same poster about Auto Pilot related accidents or near accidents.
Bob, I really think you should not be driving. Not exactly sure the issue but AP is not a good solution.
 

St☰v☰

Member
Aug 27, 2019
837
587
Texas
Sorry about your damage. But, your car alerted, red lines and all, and corrected twice before the accident. You must have been very tired when it happened.

View attachment 471537
Is something attached to your steering wheel? A set of nunchakus?

I think that's a steering wheel weight so he can doze off and hit curbs or he also ran over a zombie..
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,107
21,605
NC
Could not easily google the Video to watch it but what did pop up with similar stories from the same poster about Auto Pilot related accidents or near accidents.
Bob, I really think you should not be driving. Not exactly sure the issue but AP is not a good solution.

He's been told that many times in previous threads where he bragged about AP saving his life while he slept on drives- he seems uninterested in such advice. This only new info this video adds is he apparently also puts a weight on the wheel to avoid the nags waking him up.

We can only hope when he eventually kills himself doing this he doesn't take anyone else with him.
 
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