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Vision cruise control isn't usable (video)

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People will continue to use this on 2 lane roads because every other manufacturer had adaptive cruise that works fine on 2 lane roads.

Adaptive cruise will kill you just the same on that road (stopped - left turning vehicle, vehicle entering your lane from a driveway or side road, animal, etc..) I have not used any that are stopping soon enough for comfort (if at all before 'emergency' braking sets in) .

To be clear adaptive cruise only works 'well' on those roads following someone.

I think adding "dinosaur cruise" (dumb cruise control) would also be a problem - I already have too muscle memory from one pedal driving that the brake application on my ICE car is sometimes a bit late. Also, I've often engaged TACC and let the car drive off (not in a good way) realizing that Autopilot was not engaged, so adding a third level of cruise control will only make things worse.
 
Actually, FWIW it all comes down to expectations. With 'dumb' cruise control your expectation is that you must watch the traffic, road, etc just like you are in total control (this is not a bad thing). We have been 'conditioned' to some extent that the car will do things that it is not yet capable of doing (read: dangerous). With my Outback I knew exactly what the eyesight-enabled cruise control could do and what it couldn't. It was useful on freeways, but really not elsewhere. Perhaps that is the crux of the problem.....in what conditions should AP or any other driving control utility be used?
 
Adaptive cruise will kill you just the same on that road (stopped - left turning vehicle, vehicle entering your lane from a driveway or side road, animal, etc..) I have not used any that are stopping soon enough for comfort (if at all before 'emergency' braking sets in) .

To be clear adaptive cruise only works 'well' on those roads following someone.

I think adding "dinosaur cruise" (dumb cruise control) would also be a problem - I already have too muscle memory from one pedal driving that the brake application on my ICE car is sometimes a bit late. Also, I've often engaged TACC and let the car drive off (not in a good way) realizing that Autopilot was not engaged, so adding a third level of cruise control will only make things worse.

I'll have to disagree there, my 2015 F-150 has always braked correctly for a stopped vehicle ahead not even engaging the automatic emergency braking. It just works like it is supposed to. I've put around 40k miles on it. I've not had a deer or something run out in front of me though. Not that I don't pay attention, but it does work as I would expect it to. I've really just been trying to hold our 2021 Y to the same standard as my 6 year old truck.
 
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I'll have to disagree there, my 2015 F-150 has always braked correctly for a stopped vehicle ahead not even engaging the automatic emergency braking.

To be clear: Driving 60mph towards a stopped car in your lane (well beyond the follow distance), the brakes are applied well in advance 'like a human was doing it'?

I can't say I have encountered this, successfully, unless the other vehicle was already 'detected' or 'engaged' in the visual or radar range.
 
To be clear: Driving 60mph towards a stopped car in your lane (well beyond the follow distance), the brakes are applied well in advance 'like a human was doing it'?

I can't say I have encountered this, successfully, unless the other vehicle was already 'detected' or 'engaged' in the visual or radar range.

Yes, my F150 handles this situation it has never failed to not apply the brakes. It has forward collision warning also, but that isn't needed since it applies the brakes.
 
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Yes, my F150 handles this situation it has never failed to not apply the brakes. It has forward collision warning also, but that isn't needed since it applies the brakes.
Just like many other OEMs that use Radar, Ford calibrated the Radar to mainly detect objects that are moving faster than a minimum speed, in this case 6mph. This is because Radar is low resolution and has trouble distinguishing stationary objects in front of you, with objects above and to the side of you.

Ford's Description Here, scroll to the bottom under exceptions, and note it says that "due to the nature of Radar" it may not detect stationary objects and objects moving below 6mph.
 
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Here's another excerpt from the 2021.32 Owner's Manual that implies plain ol' Cruise Control is still around... just not for us.
NOTE: Depending on market region, vehicle configuration, options purchased, and software version, your vehicle may not be equipped with Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, or the feature may not operate exactly as described. If your vehicle is not equipped, refer to the owner's manual on your vehicle's touchscreen for instructions on how to use Cruise Control.

NOTE: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is a BETA feature.

May I have a non-BETA cruise control, please, Papa Elon?
 
It's quite definitely a problem. I did call it that, I can call it that, I will continue to call it that. The fact that they say it's not intended for 2 lane roads tells me they can't figure it out. Everyone else has, it's potentially dangerous. It's a problem, very clearly.

I would also point out that I had the FSD Beta for a month. The problem STILL EXISTS there, so they still haven't figured it out even though that IS an intended use. It's way past the point of "they will figure it out." They've had way more time than should be necessary to fix this PROBLEM.

Stop excusing them. It's a problem that needs to be addressed. People will continue to use this on 2 lane roads because every other manufacturer had adaptive cruise that works fine on 2 lane roads. Frankly, if Tesla didn't want us to use it on undivided highways, they could prevent it. They don't. Tesla needs to fix the PROBLEM.

Again, to be clear, I LOVE my Tesla. Overall, it's the best car I've ever owned. But I'm still mad that this feature - a feature that has worked in every other car I've owned over the past 20+ years - doesn't work in my "modern" Tesla. I would NOT sell it because of this. But it is annoying, and I'm astounded they haven't fixed it by now.
You can call it whatever you like, and complain all you like that the car should (in your opinion) be able to drive in two lane roads, but the fact remains that's not what the manual says, and that was my point. The car should be able to negotiate divided highways without severe phantom braking since that is a supported scenario, and failures here are indeed a problem (as I have already noted).

As for arguing that the car should not allow you to use it where not intended .. really? So the car can read speed limit signs, should it also limit you to driving at or under the speed limit? You are basically saying it is the cars job to make you a safe driver .. nope, it's your job.

And so what about other cars? Sure, they dont do phantom braking (or do they?) because in most cases they dont do any safety braking at all. Is this what you want? Go buy a Toyota, they are great cars. But has it occurred to you that for every phantom braking event there are many real braking events where the car prevents or mitigates a serious crash? I dont like phantom braking either (it happens to me too), and hope Tesla can reduce the frequency over time, but I sure as heck dont want them to do that at the expense of the car saving me or my family in a real emergency.

As for FSD beta, it's beta, get it? And very early beta at that. Why do you say "it's way past the point of figuring it out"? Do you know how to figure it out? Or how long it should take? If not, how can you say "they should have done it by now"? Am I disappointed it's not more solid? Of course! But Tesla are attempting something no-one else is even close to dong (forget Waymo, they are taking a very different path). Again, if you are unhappy with where it is, go choose a different car, no-one is forcing you to use the beta.

What you want, apparently, is cutting-edge technology, but with the solid reliability of tried-and-tested systems. Good luck finding that.
 
And so what about other cars? Sure, they dont do phantom braking (or do they?) because in most cases they dont do any safety braking at all. Is this what you want? Go buy a Toyota, they are great cars. But has it occurred to you that for every phantom braking event there are many real braking events where the car prevents or mitigates a serious crash? I dont like phantom braking either (it happens to me too), and hope Tesla can reduce the frequency over time, but I sure as heck dont want them to do that at the expense of the car saving me or my family in a real emergency.
This is why a while ago I posted a video to the IIHS test on collision mitigation... The Nissan system, which I have in my Infiniti did the "best" by stopping with the most margin... On the flip side, my Infiniti also phantom brakes... I can get it to do it 100% of the time on a certain road on my commute...
On the same token, the Ford and Hyundai system... Didn't even bother to hit the brakes in the pedestrian test, and ran over the "pedestrian" like it wasn't even there.
 
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This is why a while ago I posted a video to the IIHS test on collision mitigation... The Nissan system, which I have in my Infiniti did the "best" by stopping with the most margin... On the flip side, my Infiniti also phantom brakes... I can get it to do it 100% of the time on a certain road on my commute...
On the same token, the Ford and Hyundai system... Didn't even bother to hit the brakes in the pedestrian test, and ran over the "pedestrian" like it wasn't even there.
Yeah, this is going to be a balancing act for everyone, not just Tesla. It's clear that many of these braking systems can contribute massively to safety, especially in bad accidents where fractions of a second can reduce the serious consequences. But I think it's sadly inevitable that such a system is bound to generate some level of false alarms/actions, which might precipitate an accident itself. The sensible approach, of course, is to ensure that the good outcomes far outweigh the bad ones, though sadly since people (and the press) tend to focus on the bad ones (sometimes to the point of hysteria), it's difficult to keep a balanced perspective. Of course we should always strive to reduce false triggers, but I dont think they will ever reach zero (except by disabling the system entirely).
 
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What you want, apparently, is cutting-edge technology, but with the solid reliability of tried-and-tested systems. Good luck finding that.

Reading comprehension’s not your thing is it? What I want is for adaptive cruise to work properly. A problem many other manufacturers (WITH collision warning and braking, by the way) have already figured out YEARS ago.

You clearly agree with me, you’re just excusing their inability to solve this issue, and I’m not.
 
Reading comprehension’s not your thing is it? What I want is for adaptive cruise to work properly. A problem many other manufacturers (WITH collision warning and braking, by the way) have already figured out YEARS ago.
So, go buy one of those cars then. And report back on how they compare to the Tesla.

And I don't think I excused anything, I just pointed out some inaccuracies in your characterizations. Or is anyone who doesnt agree with you an automatic "fan boy" ?
 
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Does anyone think this won't get fixed? I'm wondering if they revert back to radar if the newer models can be retrofitted for radar hardware.
They can fix the problem with a minor tweak to the software. The Model 3 used to have Auto Pilot as an option, not as a standard feature, and those non-Auto Pilot cars had "dumb" cruise control that works fantastic with zero flaws. Re-do the software so you can have "dumb" cruise or "Beta TACC" on the driving screen and all will be perfect!

The problem is, Tesla wants to use you as a Beta tester and will not give you the choice to use a system that works... you have the choice of controlling speed manually OR using their jacked up Beta version of adaptive cruise control.

As far as the "will Tesla fix TACC?" question, they are currently experimenting with LIDAR after maligning it for years in the press... so there is hope for FUTURE releases of the car with HW 4.0 or beyond.

Keith
 
You can call it whatever you like, and complain all you like that the car should (in your opinion) be able to drive in two lane roads, but the fact remains that's not what the manual says, and that was my point. The car should be able to negotiate divided highways without severe phantom braking since that is a supported scenario, and failures here are indeed a problem (as I have already noted).

As for arguing that the car should not allow you to use it where not intended .. really? So the car can read speed limit signs, should it also limit you to driving at or under the speed limit? You are basically saying it is the cars job to make you a safe driver .. nope, it's your job.

And so what about other cars? Sure, they dont do phantom braking (or do they?) because in most cases they dont do any safety braking at all. Is this what you want? Go buy a Toyota, they are great cars. But has it occurred to you that for every phantom braking event there are many real braking events where the car prevents or mitigates a serious crash? I dont like phantom braking either (it happens to me too), and hope Tesla can reduce the frequency over time, but I sure as heck dont want them to do that at the expense of the car saving me or my family in a real emergency.

As for FSD beta, it's beta, get it? And very early beta at that. Why do you say "it's way past the point of figuring it out"? Do you know how to figure it out? Or how long it should take? If not, how can you say "they should have done it by now"? Am I disappointed it's not more solid? Of course! But Tesla are attempting something no-one else is even close to dong (forget Waymo, they are taking a very different path). Again, if you are unhappy with where it is, go choose a different car, no-one is forcing you to use the beta.

What you want, apparently, is cutting-edge technology, but with the solid reliability of tried-and-tested systems. Good luck finding that.

You keep saying that TACC is not intended for the use in the video, and that is a flat out lie. To quote the owners manual "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads such as highways and freeways. It should not be use on city streets."

The road in the video is a dry, straight, rural highway... it is not a city street.

You know that on non-divided highways and city streets TACC limits you to 5 mph over the speed limit, and on limited access freeways it places no limit on how much you can exceed the speed limit don't you? That means that the car knows when you are on a limited access freeway and when you are not on a limited access freeway. If Tesla did not want us to use TACC on anything other than limited access freeways they could disable it instead of limiting the speed to 5 mph over the speed limit... but to reiterate what I quoted above from the owners manual, they expect you to use TACC on anything other than wet roads, curvy roads or city streets.

Tesla LOVES it when we use TACC on roads other than limited access freeways because they are gathering data on how awful TACC works on those roads, and they can make improvements to FSD Beta based on data gathered from using "regular" Auto Pilot on "normal" roads.

You talk about FSD Beta being Beta... do YOU realize that regular old Auto Pilot auto steer is BETA? TACC is Beta? Your auto windshield wipers are BETA? Your auto high beam head lights are BETA? Hell, "regular" FSD is Beta... the FSD Beta is actually FSD BETA BETA (in other words, it is an alpha iteration...). Tesla can continue to hide behind the "Beta" designation for all of these systems that don't work as promised for as long as they like, they have been doing so for a decade now and I don't see any end in sight... but people are realizing that other manufacturers put out products that work... and if these other manufacturers find out a system doesn't work they FIX THEM rather than slapping a "Beta" designation on it and saying "use at your own risk, complainers are short sellers spreading FUD".

Keith
 
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I have driven around a dozen vehicles from various manufacturers over the past 5-6 years. None of them, NONE, ever exhibited any flaws in their adaptive cruise control systems. I just drove 175 miles in my Tesla and sent roughly 20 "Bug Reports" regarding phantom and panic braking. This is not something any reasonable person should be making excuses for.
 
My model Y phantom braking and collision warning is worse following the last software update (2021.36.5.5).
Tesla Service's response was to offer an excuse that the car thought it saw something.
My commute is on a well marked 2 lane road, and the car has issues every couple of minutes.
I would welcome dumb cruise control, but that will never happen.
 
I have driven around a dozen vehicles from various manufacturers over the past 5-6 years. None of them, NONE, ever exhibited any flaws in their adaptive cruise control systems. I just drove 175 miles in my Tesla and sent roughly 20 "Bug Reports" regarding phantom and panic braking. This is not something any reasonable person should be making excuses for.
You should take a spin in my MDX going up the 2 lane road on the back of our hill... It will phantom brake at least twice on that 2 mile stretch of road.
 
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Yes, exactly. We are in the same situation. This video was filmed in rural Indiana. When we ordered this car vision based cruise had not even been announced. Tesla doesn't treat the feature the same as autopilot as well. When you get in the car for the first time it is enabled by default unlike autosteer. We were willing to give them some initial slack due to parts shortages but nearly 6 months later zero improvements. This was supposed to be a superior system that eliminated phantom braking.

Frankly, like rpjpnk just mentioned allowing us just "dumb" cruise control for the time being would be good enough until they fixed the feature.

Just noting that they already have the code for dumb cruise control, and it's just Tesla arrogance or lameness that they don't make it available as a backup for situations where they blow it on the software updates.

My car is a SR, not SR+, and because of that I don't even have AutoPilot, nor TACC. However, I do have dumb cruise control, which works just fine. Speed is adjustable via the right scroll wheel.

Initially I wasn't sure I wanted the cheapest car with the fewest options, but I think it was the right call for me, because I think Tesla's software sucks. (I'm a software guy, and have low tolerance for crap software.)