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Vision Only Limitations

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I cant help but feel like I am getting the raw end of the deal. I feel like once things go back to normal, they'll resume radar and I'll feel even worse. Any thoughts? I want my car so I don't want to wait, but can't help but feel like I'm getting screwed like a light bulb or maybe even a screw. It's like Tesla wants to make as many deliveries as possible so they just keep taking bits and pieces off to make it happen at the cost of sacraficing quality by removing key components due to the current supply chain constraints.
Wouldn't be surprised if today's announced NHTSA investigation red flags Tesla's removal of lidar/radar and triggers a recall forcing Tesla to retrofit it.
 
I have a MY-Vision only (no radar) and no FSD. A couple things are annoying and trying to figure out what is Vision only limitation and hopefully will be resolved with the latest release.

1. Max speed on AP is 80mph. Traveling on highways with a speed limit of 70, I set it at 78 mph. In my last roundtrip, I passed someone on AP by manually accelerating past 80mph. That caused me to lose AP for the rest of the trip. Very frustrating.
2. On rural highways the speed limit isn't always posted but defaults to ~50mph. In several cases AP limits were set to 35 mph which is annoying, but at least I can manually accelerate to faster speeds without losing AP for the rest of my trip. Is this a Vision only issue or same for everyone?
3. Nag notification seems to be quicker than I see on other youtube videos (~20 seconds.) Has anyone else noticed a quicker nag notification on Vision only Teslas?
4. The interior camera seems to be looking at me because if I'm on my phone (I know... I shouldn't be) it will beep at me right away instead of doing the typical gradual progression. I fixed that with a piece of tape, but thought it was interesting that it's clearly detecting if I'm looking at my phone.
5. The "3" follow distance is getting old too. If I were in a city environment, it would be more frustration.

The next update can't come soon enough.
well, sooner or later, I think someone will have an unfortunate incident with the camera taped ( covered) and that will prompt Tesla to release another sw update which will disable AP is the camera vision is blocked out. It only takes a few incidents for Tesla to get a bad name and the blame comes on the technology .
 
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Wouldn't be surprised if today's announced NHTSA investigation red flags Tesla's removal of lidar/radar and triggers a recall forcing Tesla to retrofit it.
I highly doubt it, as IIHS and CR already retested vision only, and re-instated the top safety pick+ after verifying that the vision only based mitigation systems were just as effective.
 
well, sooner or later, I think someone will have an unfortunate incident with the camera taped ( covered) and that will prompt Tesla to release another sw update which will disable AP is the camera vision is blocked out. It only takes a few incidents for Tesla to get a bad name and the blame comes on the technology .
The problem is with the thousands of MX and MS vehicles that don't have a cabin camera. If you're correct, these people will never get FSD.
 
I'm not a fan of cabin cameras. Too big brother for my taste. Do you really want AI's watching your every move throughout the day and pestering you every time it thinks you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing? I would only approve if it was an optional opt-in feature for those who want it.

FSD and a cabin camera are also at odds with each other. If it's really FSD, you wouldn't need someone or something to make sure you are alert. FSD with a cabin camera means it's not FSD. A cabin camera, if there has to be one, should be packaged as a component of TACC, completely unrelated to FSD. Could probably sell more FSD that way too, which would help given how overpriced FSD is. At any rate, a cabin camera is a reminder that it's not FSD and won't be anytime soon.

In the end, the best vehicle driver is an alert, sensible human. Our ability to make sense of everything on the road using minimal power is unmatchable by any modern computer systems. Switching to vision only is a step towards proving that. Neural nets is another. Ultimately, all these self driving systems are really trying to do in terms of driving safety is just remove the poor judgement (meaning we know what we should do, but don't do it because we are jackasses) and fatigue elements that unfortunately come packaged with humans.
 
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Why is that a bother? The car will slow down and reestablish a safe following distance on a car that ducks into the gap. You arrive at your destination 1 second later.
I don't know where you drive that one or two cars would duck in, but where I drive it would start with one guy cutting you off, so the Tesla slows down. Sensing weakness, everyone behind you goes around you and cuts you off just a little closer making the Tesla slow even more. Angered by your ever decreasing speed in the left lane, the passing cars now begin heckling you until you are finally rammed off the road by a landscaping dump truck full of decorative river rock.
 
I cant help but feel like I am getting the raw end of the deal. I feel like once things go back to normal, they'll resume radar and I'll feel even worse. Any thoughts? I want my car so I don't want to wait, but can't help but feel like I'm getting screwed like a light bulb or maybe even a screw. It's like Tesla wants to make as many deliveries as possible so they just keep taking bits and pieces off to make it happen at the cost of sacraficing quality by removing key components due to the current supply chain constraints.
They will not resume radar. If anything, they may go with cameras that see in a wider spectrum eventually, but they will not add conflicting sensor inputs again.

Removing radar is not a step back, it was a step forward. They got the vision to a point that radar was holding the car back. The problem is, they didn't release the new vision stuff yet. If you watched AI day, they had added temporal and geographical inputs to give the car a short term memory based on time and position to create object permanence and remember road markings and signs for upcoming situations. Our cars still have the pre-object-permanence software and thus the limitations. Hopefully 2021.32.20 or whatever we eventually get updated to will add the AI day level of vision processing and remove limitations.
 
They will not resume radar. If anything, they may go with cameras that see in a wider spectrum eventually, but they will not add conflicting sensor inputs again.

Removing radar is not a step back, it was a step forward. They got the vision to a point that radar was holding the car back. The problem is, they didn't release the new vision stuff yet. If you watched AI day, they had added temporal and geographical inputs to give the car a short term memory based on time and position to create object permanence and remember road markings and signs for upcoming situations. Our cars still have the pre-object-permanence software and thus the limitations. Hopefully 2021.32.20 or whatever we eventually get updated to will add the AI day level of vision processing and remove limitations.
I tried a short road trip and the vision only seems perfectly fine when there is light outside. When dark, it wants to have the high beams on so it can see as far as possible. I don't have any updates yet and sitting on 2021.11.103. Is this an older software version?
 
Yeah…slow down just enough for the next jackwad to squeeze his grimy car in… Wash, Rinse, repeat…nonstop. LOL
Funny thing is that bothers me way more when I'm managing the distance rather than when the car is. In those cases, I'm perfectly happy to let several cars in front of me and arrive a couple minutes later. That's a big part of why I decided to get a Tesla: my experience with Adaptive Cruise Control in rental cars made me realize what aspects of driving are most tiresome for me. To get another BMW with ACC would set me back at least as much as the MY I have on order.

Wouldn't be surprised if today's announced NHTSA investigation red flags Tesla's removal of lidar/radar and triggers a recall forcing Tesla to retrofit it.
How could it red flag no radar when the vast majority of incidents occurred before radar was removed?
 
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Why do you think NHTSA wouldn't encompass questioning the removal of radar in their investigation and demand a convincing explanation from Tesla? It would be myopic of NHTSA not to.
Because the vast majority of incidents occurred before the production change occurred. While it might be a point of concern, it could hardly be considered a contributing factor.
 
My problem with the 80MPH bit is that it doesn’t really make much sense. For one, I states like Texas there ARE highways with posted 75MPH limits (and believe me, if you’ve been on them…that’s more like a “suggestion”) and at those speeds, it’s not hard to go over 80 when just gradually overtaking someone doing the bipolar thing of speeding up/slowing down constantly. Secondly, please do tell how the radar somehow makes this 10MPH gap more acceptable? I’m genuinely interested…
Because the radar is better at detecting cars in front. Vision only is BS
 
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That's funny. A lot of people seem to be experts at computer vision and remote sensing around here :)

There is a reason why a bunch of experts in the field have decided to let go of simple radar. There some explanations as to why, like too many false positives (radar detecting obstacles that don't really exist). I think GreenTheOnly has some examples on his Twitter.

I don't think Tesla have stated that they will never use anything else than vision (cameras). However, at the moment, they seem to believe results are better with cameras only instead of adding a coarse radar. It's possible that lidar, as in precise point cloud capture, would help. However, the price and bulkiness of that equipment probably make them difficult to apply in a mass production car. Time will tell if eventually we see a lidar scanner on our cars.

It is certainly possible that during the transition the vision-only implementation is not as good as the radar one. They might have switched a bit early but I am confident they will get it eventually, if they say it is better.
 
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