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Volkswagen Gigafactory

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Mookuh, May 29, 2016.

  1. Mookuh

    Mookuh Member

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  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    From that article, quote: "A spokesman for VW described the report as “speculation”."
     
  3. fosking

    fosking Member

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    Please let this be true :eek:
     
  4. Mookuh

    Mookuh Member

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    #4 Mookuh, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
    Handelsblatt claims the usually ominous "corporate sources" as the wellspring of their info. Regardless, it's making quite a buzz in German media tho I'll spare you the articles in German.

    Exclusive: VW Considers Building Own Battery Factory - Handelsblatt Global Edition

    Edit: It's printed in most of the major German nbusiness news outlets and Handelsblatt is usually reputable enough to have *some* substance to what they're writing. Guess we'll see. It would make sense on a lot of levels. I wonder if they're going to strike many a deal with the government for the factory construction. A possible, speculated location is Salzgitter, which is close enough to Wolfsburg to be viable. And close enough to Sachsen-Anhalt to benefit from cheap East-German labour :D
     
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  5. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Perhaps like the Tesla Gigafactory the VW proposals is a threat to battery suppliers: Ramp up to meet our needs or we will become competitors.
     
  6. tftf

    tftf Member

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    #6 tftf, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
    The first stage to announce something would be their 2025 strategy event in mid-2016:

    VW to Publish New Strategy in Mid-June for Rebound From Scandal

    But given the size of such a project I doubt they will go into all details already even if they seriously consider a (cell) factory.

    As I wrote in another thread:

    It wouldn't be the first time a large car maker decides to vertically integrate battery supply, see Nissan since 2009 - years before Tesla announced their Gigafactory project:

    But Nissan spent a lot of money so far without a clear ROI:

     
  7. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Nissan also got ATVM funding for their US battery factory. However, they did not vertically integrate anything about the cell manufacturing. They still buy all the materials like separators, cathode and anode material from outside suppliers. The lead time for those materials limits their ability to quickly change manufacturing rate.
     
  8. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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  9. tftf

    tftf Member

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    #9 tftf, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
    VW CEO’s Strategy Overhaul Focuses on Electric Vehicles

    Executing this 2025 strategy will lead to announcements re battery sourcing sooner or later. VW will likely require 2-3 plants (Asia, NA, Europe) with or without cell partners (maybe JV or similar, see Nissan's example discussed above).

    See PDF presentation of 2025 strategy for details. Slide 20 talks about 150 GWh of capacity:

    http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/talks_and_presentations/2016/06/together.bin.html/binarystorageitem/file/Presse_englisch_NICHTanimiert_Version_24.pdf

    From the speech:

     
  10. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    From the article:
    It's interesting that VW is calling their dishonesty "the diesel issue" and is gleaming about achieving their goals ahead of schedule w/o realizing that they accomplished it by cheating their own customers and pollution.
     
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  11. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    Regardless of that, many were calling on VW to make this decision and they appear to have done it. Now we'll see how well they execute.
     
  12. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    So... Tesla is right.

    In order to achieve the volume scale up, automakers have to build their own battery plants or have joint ventures with battery cell manufacturers. Waiting for organic growth such that the battery cell manufacturers can grow in step with short term battery orders is not going to cut it for the massive transition yet to come.

    We'll also see the carnage that this will cause the rest of the industry and VAG itself.

    Now, 150 GWh is not 2 to 3 million BEVs. Likely there's a slew of PHEVs thrown into that. So that's how we can reconcile the earlier 1 million BEVs statement with this one, that about half this battery plant's capacity would be for BEVs, and the rest would be for PHEVs.

    With Tesla's Gigafactory looking to be 100 GWh in the 2020-ish timeframe, 2025 looks to be very, very late. And VAG is the earliest of the automakers and they are likely around 3-4 years late.
     
  13. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    Well VW claims that 2-3 million will be "pure electric":

     
  14. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    The thing is, Tesla has quite a bit of the Gigafactory spending already behind it. At least enough to begin ramping Model 3 production. VW has that spending ahead of it. While at the same time having their diesel business castrated, and their higher end car sales being eaten into by Tesla. Even more so when the Model 3 comes out. They are going to have problems raising the cash to make it happen.

    The mantra that "If Tesla can do it, we can do it" is often heard. The difference being that by the time any automaker starts producing as good a car as Tesla, along with a nationwide fast charging network, Tesla will already be Kleenex. Tesla will be so ingrained in the public's mind that they will be synonymous with EV's. People won't ask if you drive an EV, they will ask if you drive a Tesla. The game will be over for VW before the first battery rolls out of their first Gigafactory. Actually, the game is already over, they just don't know it.

    RT
     
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  15. tftf

    tftf Member

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    Quite a bit?

    $508 million until Q2 2016 for Tesla and Panasonic combined is next to nothing in the context of millions of EVs.

    As I discussed in other threads, Daimler will invest about $550 million into a mere expansion of an existing battery factory without any local cell production (which is the most cap-ex intensive process).

    Large EV battery factories will require billions and billions for each factory, Tesla's investment so far is a drop in the bucket.
     
  16. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Cool. How much of the $8Bn rumored did VW invest already. Please answer with only a number, no text. Thanks. Hugs and kisses XXX.
     
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  17. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Meanwhile, Toyota does nothing....

    It's going to be interesting to see what kind of roadmap GM/LG cook up in response.
     
  18. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    Ironic that you think Tesla's expenditure is nothing, when everyone else's actual capacity is minuscule compared to what Tesla and Panasonic have, and will have in the near future. Between the Panasonic plants in Osaka and the Gigafactory investment thus far, the amount of infrastructure spend is roughly $2 billion. By mid 2017, the investment is going to be more like $3.5 billion with a resulting capacity of about 25 GWh. That's more than LG Chem + Samsung SDI + SK Innovations + AESC put together, by more than double.
     
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  19. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    Thankyou Elon for your inspiration.

    Your avowed aim was to migrate transportation to a more environmentally sustainable future.
    Tesla is blazing the trail that others are being forced to seriously consider following.
    Exactly the intention all along.

    All is good. We get more competition, Tesla have to work even harder to keep ahead. Wha'ts not to like?

    Who says one man can't change the world.
     
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  20. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    While I do see that translation in a number of articles, the German article that TFTF pointed to doesn't say that. Neither does the PDF presentation given by VW.

    The German article says:
    Google translate translates it to:

    "VW planning a major electrification campaign and wants to bring more than 30 new electric vehicles on the market by 2025th. The annual sales target amounts for the streamers on two to three million units."

    There is a quote further down that says, "... "Der Verbrennungsmotor wird allerdings nicht verschwinden.“ Insgesamt sollen die E-Autos 25 Prozent des gesamten Fahrzeugumsatzes ausmachen" which Google translate has as "... "The internal combustion engine is, however, not disappear." Overall, the E-cars will account for 25 percent of total vehicle sales."

    Anyone that is a German native speaker want to chime in?
     

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