Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

[jerry33]

There is no such thing as a "clean diesel". At best there are some that are "less dirty".

 

[drinkerofkoolaid]

The cars are still safe to drive, the EPA said, and owners do not need to take immediate action. But agency officials said they will require Volkswagen to fix the cars for free, indicating that a recall is likely."

Even though Volkswagen is being forced to recall the vehicles to fox the "problem", it looks to me the "problem isn't something that can be fixed. How can Volkswagen fix a problem that isn't a defect, and is there by design? Everyone who bought one of the vehicles included in the recall was lied to about what they were buying.

Damages for lying to EPA + Damages to people who bought the vehicles + ZEV mandate related fines + The State of California. Could this fiasco force Volkswagen to substantially downsize?

 

[Discoducky]

Thanks for posting Rob!

This is alarming if true that it was 'engineered' to falsify. I can't even imagine directing my engineering team to even think of such a thing. Amazing

The EPA and California Air Resources Board say the affected models had software in its computer engine controls that could sense exactly when it was being tested for emissions quality. At all other times, it would run the diesels in a different mode with illegal levels of pollution; for example, spewing up to 40 times more nitrogen oxide, a key component of smog, than allowed.

 

[dalalsid]

Even though Volkswagen is being forced to recall the vehicles to fox the "problem", it looks to me the "problem isn't something that can be fixed. How can Volkswagen fix a problem that isn't a defect, and is there by design? Everyone who bought one of the vehicles included in the recall was lied to about what they were buying.

Sounds like software which turns something on under specific conditions. It needs to be always on. I wonder what the side effects of that will be to the cars. clean diesel now joins clean coal and renewable hydrogen in my book.

 

[BerTX]

There is no such thing as a "clean diesel". At best there are some that are "less dirty".

Mine is clean 99% of the time. I don't drive it much.

 

[bollar]

Also discussed here: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

 

[drinkerofkoolaid]

Isn't it nice when a journalist clearly borrows an idea you mention

VW is the new Samsung -- cheating and all

 

[Yonki]

Sounds like software which turns something on under specific conditions. It needs to be always on. I wonder what the side effects of that will be to the cars. clean diesel now joins clean coal and renewable hydrogen in my book.

I suspect the "cheat" only works at the specific conditions/engine speeds of the emission tests - unfortunately for VW, I don't think turning it "always on" would solve the problem. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out...

 

[trils0n]

Not just lying. They built software/hardware to detect emissions tests and defeat them -- that implies an intentional strategy to not comply with the law, and an organizational willingness to go along with that decision.

I always thought "clean diesel" was a funny saying, kind of like "clean coal". They appear to have known how dirty it was (dirty enough to not pass emissions tests), and took steps to hide it, and still marketed it as clean. Pretty amazing.

 

[HVM]

Nothing new under the sun:
European car manufacturers are exploiting test loopholes to exaggerate their vehicles' green credentials, an official European Commission study has found.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/08/us-eu-autos-testing-idUSBRE9170FM20130208

Only a new, more advanced tech approach.

 

[Bangor Bob]

So, odds are they're not meeting Euro6 standards (when not being tested) either then...

That could get ugly.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Wow! Unconscionable. If even part of this is true, I suggest that part of the fine includes a complete prohibition on VW selling diesel cars for 5 years. Perhaps, 5 yr jail sentences for the executive team as well.

 

[ev-enthusiast]

Even though Volkswagen is being forced to recall the vehicles to fox the "problem", it looks to me the "problem isn't something that can be fixed. How can Volkswagen fix a problem that isn't a defect, and is there by design? Everyone who bought one of the vehicles included in the recall was lied to about what they were buying.

Damages for lying to EPA + Damages to people who bought the vehicles + ZEV mandate related fines + The State of California. Could this fiasco force Volkswagen to substantially downsize?

Exactly this!

A today's exhaust systems are very complex systems.
There is a lot of exhaust fumes cleaning done in an exhaust system.
It could very well be that there is no easy fix for VW to comply with EPA.
Maybe they need a power reduction of about a fourth of the engine power.
That'll depend on the specific engine and the exhaust systems.
But would a customer be happy about such a solution?

I was surprised that EPA really found this issue.
When I first heard about this issue some years ago I felt like this is a really bad thing and obviously cheating and perhaps nobody will ever find out.
I did not know what was worse at that time.

BTW modern engines are able to detect different test cycles (they are predefined and always exactly the same) and switch to a power reduced mode during the remaining part of the test cycle.

BTW I could imagine another German car company getting involved in this issue.

Fact check:
Some car manufacturers are producing vehicles that behave different depending on if they are run during a test cycle like EPA and in reality on the streets.

Lots of damage done.
I hope EPA is a tiny little bit angry about that.

BTW I really do hope that Tesla does cooperate with EPA in a positive way.

BTW if this is getting picked up by the media during the next days this could get a lot of press attention.
This could be pretty bad for VW as they are currently attending the international auto show IAA in Frankfurt, Germany.
I am sure this story is not unfolding as planned by the staff

 

[techmaven]

Wow... just wow. VW pulled a Samsung.

This isn't exaggeration or putting your product in the best light. This is blatant fraud. I would expect criminal prosecution for something like this.

 

[wiztecy]

I would expect criminal prosecution for something like this.

Criminal prosecution of a company and its executives in "capitalistic" America. The only thing that will be prosecuted is their wallet.

 

[BoerumHill]

Criminal prosecution of a company and its executives in "capitalistic" America. The only thing that will be prosecuted is their wallet.

$18B isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.

 

[drinkerofkoolaid]

Exactly this!

A today's exhaust systems are very complex systems.
There is a lot of exhaust fumes cleaning done in an exhaust system.
It could very well be that there is no easy fix for VW to comply with EPA.
Maybe they need a power reduction of about a fourth of the engine power.
That'll depend on the specific engine and the exhaust systems.
But would a customer be happy about such a solution?

I was surprised that EPA really found this issue.
When I first heard about this issue some years ago I felt like this is a really bad thing and obviously cheating and perhaps nobody will ever find out.
I did not know what was worse at that time.

BTW modern engines are able to detect different test cycles (they are predefined and always exactly the same) and switch to a power reduced mode during the remaining part of the test cycle.

BTW I could imagine another German car company getting involved in this issue.

Fact check:
Some car manufacturers are producing vehicles that behave different depending on if they are run during a test cycle like EPA and in reality on the streets.

Lots of damage done.
I hope EPA is a tiny little bit angry about that.

BTW I really do hope that Tesla does cooperate with EPA in a positive way.

BTW if this is getting picked up by the media during the next days this could get a lot of press attention.
This could be pretty bad for VW as they are currently attending the international auto show IAA in Frankfurt, Germany.
I am sure this story is not unfolding as planned by the staff

Doesn't this discovery mean Volkswagen will also need to pay a penalty for failing to meet the required fuel efficiency requirements?

Does this mean in addition to the damages they will be deemed to be responsible for, they also need to pay for each credit they failed to earn or acquire?

Maybe this is the beginning of what Jerry Brown meant when he said the following: (See below video)

My zeal has been intensified to a maximum degree and nothing is going to stop California from pushing forward on its low carbon fuel standards, on its cap and trade, on its Electric Vehicle mandate, and all the rest. We're not going the way of other states where they (the automobile manufacturers) can say "no, you jump through the hoop and then we'll give you a few crumbs. We're not taking the bait. California will continue to lead.

It's a bit terrifying this video only has 159 views. The only thing more terrifying, is the comment section.

Every person who cares about Climate Change (which should include everyone on this forum) should watch this video!

Senate bill 350 shut down, Jerry Brown admits he will pursue his agenda through C.A.R.B. regulation - YouTube

 

[Sosius]

VW's going to have a hell of a time retrofitting all these vehicles to meet emissions regs. The end result will be markedly slower TDIs, which will be unacceptable for many buyers. My bet is that they wind up buying a lot of cars back or offering cash to people whose vehicles lost performance as a result of the modifications to meet emissions regulations.

Serves VW right for what looks like blatantly fraudulent and illegal activities. Eff 'em.

 

[Solarguy]

$18B isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.

And every penny of it will be passed down to the consumer as is the corporate way. GM ignition switch is a good example.

 

[glhs272]

Also, doesn't this mean that they can't continue to sell new diesel vehicles because they don't comply with the emissions standards?