Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

[mspohr]

The fallout continues:

German prosecutors said on Monday that they had begun an investigation of the former chief executive of Volkswagen for possible violations of securities laws in connection with the company’s emissions scandal.
"The investigation comes at an inopportune time for Volkswagen, which will hold its annual shareholders meeting on Wednesday. The investigation of Mr. Winterkorn will bolster investors who have filed lawsuits accusing Volkswagen of violating disclosure laws."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/business/international/volkswagen-winterkorn-germany.html?_r=0

 

[3mp_kwh]

That $1 billion that has floated around was meant to be $10 billion by what other articles have stated. The potential fine is up to $81B not $18B.

I think the 1bb was cash payouts to all customers, independent of buyback or keep options. VW was going to pay evenly, whether you chose to keep or sell back. The rumor, of 6.5bb for buyback and 3.5bb for EPA CARB (Bloomberg last week?) adds up to 10bb. I don't know if the 1bb is already inside that 6.5bb. So many pending details. A big one is the percent to value, as-of 9/18/15 in Kelly Blue Book. Could be 110%, 130%?? It could include the "diesel premium", with evidence of purchase price.

Following this closely, it is interesting that by not having approved fixes, in Europe, VW is essentially getting off easier. At some rate, cars up to 7 years old are no longer registered. No longer a liability, or VW might hope. I think the U.S. buyback rate only goes up, as so much time has past and people have grown sick of the whole affair.

Like several here, I'm under a different Pseudo and have been posting at TDIclud since wayyy back. It's too bad they're now moderating out "dieselgate" posts.

 

[gene]

Like several here, I'm under a different Pseudo and have been posting at TDIclud since wayyy back. It's too bad they're now moderating out "dieselgate" posts.

Yes, TDI Club Forums had an immense "threadzilla" which they closed along with several other dieselgate threads. I've been trying to figure their motive to close those threads. All I can come up with is that the end of VW TDI's in the USA is the end of their club and forum. My guess, like so many of the posters on the TDI site, these guys are in denial.

 

[TEG]

By the way, in case anyone cares, I noticed some old stories about previous "dieselgates" that pre-dated the VW situation:
http://jalopnik.com/how-the-epa-won-1-billion-from-diesel-cheaters-long-be-1732109485
One would think that this whole episode would not have been a surprise that got noticed by accident as the original news suggested.
I would assume that the EPA and CARB would have been watching everyone carefully for defeat devices since this had happened before.

 

[gene]

Volkswagen's diesel settlement will fund range of clean air efforts

 

[adiggs]

Volkswagen's diesel settlement will fund range of clean air efforts

One thing I like about VW's response is that they're being pretty proactive about moving this forward to actual resolution, instead of trying to drag it out and stiff people for any dollar they can. As a bonus, I see a path in this to car owners getting a reasonable settlement without needing a lawyer to intervene on their behalf, and that sounds like smaller fees for the legal profession.

One element of the settlement I particularly like, is the fine / settlement that will be used to update aging diesel buses and other infrastructure to reduce diesel emissions. It's an area that isn't directly involved in the crime, but it's an area in which money can be spent and create the desired remediation - reduced diesel emissions beyond just taking the offending cars off the road (or "repairing" them - you can tell I'm skeptical about how well that option is going to work ).

It doesn't change the original crime - but it does make a more than token effort directly targeted at offsetting and reversing some of the damage. Kudos to them and everybody else involved for the idea.

 

[cschock]

One thing I like about VW's response is that they're being pretty proactive about moving this forward to actual resolution, instead of trying to drag it out and stiff people for any dollar they can. As a bonus, I see a path in this to car owners getting a reasonable settlement without needing a lawyer to intervene on their behalf, and that sounds like smaller fees for the legal profession.

One element of the settlement I particularly like, is the fine / settlement that will be used to update aging diesel buses and other infrastructure to reduce diesel emissions. It's an area that isn't directly involved in the crime, but it's an area in which money can be spent and create the desired remediation - reduced diesel emissions beyond just taking the offending cars off the road (or "repairing" them - you can tell I'm skeptical about how well that option is going to work ).

It doesn't change the original crime - but it does make a more than token effort directly targeted at offsetting and reversing some of the damage. Kudos to them and everybody else involved for the idea.

On the other hand... I am not thrilled with the monetary compensation for the cars. Using the NADA trade in value as a basis is a bit disappointing, since we all know how dealers low ball the value of a trade in. It's not a bad deal for newer TDI vehicles, it appears most people will come out ahead on the cars in that scenario. For those of us with the first year car, not so much. Oh well, when it all came down I figured the car was worthless, at least we'll get enough out of it to buy a used Leaf or something until our Model 3 arrives.

 

[Volare3]

On the other hand... I am not thrilled with the monetary compensation for the cars. Using the NADA trade in value as a basis is a bit disappointing, since we all know how dealers low ball the value of a trade in. It's not a bad deal for newer TDI vehicles, it appears most people will come out ahead on the cars in that scenario. For those of us with the first year car, not so much. Oh well, when it all came down I figured the car was worthless, at least we'll get enough out of it to buy a used Leaf or something until our Model 3 arrives.

Or hang on to your TDI for a couple of years until your Model 3 arrives?

 

[3mp_kwh]

On the other hand... I am not thrilled with the monetary compensation for the cars. Using the NADA trade in value as a basis is a bit disappointing, since we all know how dealers low ball the value of a trade in. It's not a bad deal for newer TDI vehicles, it appears most people will come out ahead on the cars in that scenario. For those of us with the first year car, not so much. ...

Yup, older car is me, too. Happy with amount, though. I think what might have been a last minute decision to go from 6.5bb, to 10bb for customers, is why the lack of fairness within the Class still won't stop most from surrendering their car. Some newer owners will receive more than they paid, up to two years from now when they give the cars up. ~20k total value. VW's formula allows 1,042 miles per month without any additional deduction from your buyout. I guess the trick is not to look at the other guy's lawn, eh? I certainly couldn't drive what I have, for that long. I've never let a car go, like this

 

[cschock]

Or hang on to your TDI for a couple of years until your Model 3 arrives?

I bought the stupid thing to help the environment. I would just feel really bad if we kept driving it while it belched toxins all over my neighbors. So off it goes and never another VW group product for us (2 VW and 2 Audi before between my wife and I.)

 

[AndreN]

Just spotted this news article:
Volkswagen engineer pleads guilty in US emissions probe

Looks like this is the first person from VW to be criminally charged. The engineer in question has apparently entered a plea deal and is cooperating with the government.

 

[BluestarE3]

From the article linked above:

So Liang and others, including employees of an entity referred to as "Company A," designed software that would activate the emission controls of an engine undergoing a government test and deactivate them afterward, according to the indictment.

Hmm... I wonder who "Company A" is? "Company B", perhaps?

 

[SageBrush]

From the article linked above:

Hmm... I wonder who "Company A" is? "Company B", perhaps?

IIRC Bosch wrote the software for VW but I think they covered their rear ends by also sending memos to VW saying that the software was explicitly for testing only.

 

[Kim.T]

The latest test shows that VW is the best in class. Everybody else is poluting even more than VW: Dieselgate 1st anniversary: all diesel car brands in Europe are even more polluting than Volkswagen - study | Transport & Environment

 

[McRat]

The most remarkable thing about the whole affair is how inept CARB is. Lots of expensive pointless testing caught no defects in brand new gross polluters.

A simple 10 minute test drive and 30 minutes of looking over the data would have caught any attempt by any method to defeat the canned cycle dyno testing. I assume they checked the engine output during the entire test, which would be a dead giveaway. But I don't think they did. OK, to give them the benefit of the doubt, they could just drop a datalogger in the passenger seat and go for a quick drive. Compare Canned Cycle settings to Actual Driving settings. They should be very close to identical.

Is the timing the same at 80% TPS x 3000 rpm? Manifold pressure? Pilot shots? EGR valve position? NOx comes from the engine settings. To make more, raise the combustion temperature and hence the power. More boost, less EGR, less advanced timing.

$200 per each new car and pickup was spent by CARB's staff of 1400. This is compromised of under 40 new models and $400,000,000. Or $10 million dollars and 35 employees available for each new car model each year.

That wasn't enough bureaucracy to correctly test the cars? RIIIGGGHHHTTT. Wish I could put in a competing bid. I'd cut the budget by 50% and do a better job and retire in Tahiti in 5 years.

 

[bro1999]

And the hits keep on coming. VW sued $9 billion for stock price drop resulting from Dieselgate.
VW Faces $9 Billion in Claims in Germany From Stock Drop

 

[Krugerrand]

The most remarkable thing about the whole affair is how inept CARB is. Lots of expensive pointless testing caught no defects in brand new gross polluters.

It's CARB's fault for not discovering that VW et al were breaking the law? Please. That's like saying it's a store owner's fault for being robbed at gunpoint because they didn't have a metal detector installed at their entranceway. It's a victim's fault for being mugged because they didn't have a bodyguard with them, etc...

All the fault and responsibility, ALL OF IT, lies with the individuals who purposely gamed and cheated the system, regardless if there's a flaw in that system. Unless of course you're of the opinion it's okay to lie, cheat, steal, kill etc... as long as you don't get caught. That it's not your responsibility to be a law abiding citizen and everyone else's responsibility to keep you in line.

 

[mspohr]

The most remarkable thing about the whole affair is how inept CARB is. Lots of expensive pointless testing caught no defects in brand new gross polluters.

A simple 10 minute test drive and 30 minutes of looking over the data would have caught any attempt by any method to defeat the canned cycle dyno testing. I assume they checked the engine output during the entire test, which would be a dead giveaway. But I don't think they did. OK, to give them the benefit of the doubt, they could just drop a datalogger in the passenger seat and go for a quick drive. Compare Canned Cycle settings to Actual Driving settings. They should be very close to identical.

Is the timing the same at 80% TPS x 3000 rpm? Manifold pressure? Pilot shots? EGR valve position? NOx comes from the engine settings. To make more, raise the combustion temperature and hence the power. More boost, less EGR, less advanced timing.

$200 per each new car and pickup was spent by CARB's staff of 1400. This is compromised of under 40 new models and $400,000,000. Or $10 million dollars and 35 employees available for each new car model each year.

That wasn't enough bureaucracy to correctly test the cars? RIIIGGGHHHTTT. Wish I could put in a competing bid. I'd cut the budget by 50% and do a better job and retire in Tahiti in 5 years.

CARB did not test new cars. They relied on manufacturer certification. Manufacturers lied. VW is paying the price.

 

[McRat]

CARB did not test new cars. They relied on manufacturer certification. Manufacturers lied. VW is paying the price.

So ... where did all the Kill All Diesels PhD's spend several hundred million since 2006 (probably over $1b)?

Since CARB is redundant, the EPA has 50 state diesel restrictions, and California hired dozens of diesel specific techs.

But wait. CARB DOES HAVE A DIESEL CAR TESTING FACILITY. There are only a small handful of diesel cars sold in California over the last 10 years, did they actually do any work?

Yes, VW was criminally wrong. Yes, we spend billions on compliance. Why bother if we don't really care about their emissions?

CARB spent most their money trying to eliminate aftermarket parts and falsifying studies they never did. Nobody was prosecuted, just demoted.

California has the best government that money can buy. And I don't mean taxes.

 

[McRat]

It's CARB's fault for not discovering that VW et al were breaking the law? Please. That's like saying it's a store owner's fault for being robbed at gunpoint because they didn't have a metal detector installed at their entranceway. It's a victim's fault for being mugged because they didn't have a bodyguard with them, etc...

All the fault and responsibility, ALL OF IT, lies with the individuals who purposely gamed and cheated the system, regardless if there's a flaw in that system. Unless of course you're of the opinion it's okay to lie, cheat, steal, kill etc... as long as you don't get caught. That it's not your responsibility to be a law abiding citizen and everyone else's responsibility to keep you in line.

Better analogy. California spent billions to make sure guns didn't enter stores. But they really had no interest in stopping it.