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Volts start to annoy me every day more !

Discussion in 'North America' started by joer00, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. joer00

    joer00 Member

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    From the EV community my experience is that the Volt drivers have the worst charging behavior. Frequently I see volts blocking a Chademo parking space . Then there are those who block a Level 2 forever. Volts should charge at L1 and not blocking an 80 Amp charger for 4 hours just to get a few KW.

    And than there is this stupid car "feature" that the alarm goes on if one unplugs a CHARGED car.

    I really hope that all those new "plug in hybrids" will fail, otherwise we see more and more of chargers blocked by those cars who have a tiny battery with a tiny charger.
     
  2. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    I just really don't know what to say about this. Is a plug in hybrid any less deserving of traveling on pure electricity than a Tesla? With a 3.6 kW charger it takes about 5 hours to charge the 17 kWh Volt battery. Just the right amount of time for someone to park at work and recharge before heading home. I'd say we should be supporting the electrification of travel and the Volt is very much a step in that direction.
     
  3. AMPUP

    AMPUP Member

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    #3 AMPUP, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
    Volts can't charge at a chademo station and as stated above level 2 takes 5+ hours.

    Some of us (me included) started out in a Volt and then went to the next level, the Volt is a very capable vehicle and what gave me the bug to get into a Tesla.
     
  4. physicsfita

    physicsfita Member

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    I'm going to be very interested to see what consensus evolves on this thread. My backup plan if my Prius dies before the Model 3 comes out is to get a Volt (preferably the new model coming out with the longer electric range). If the EV community thinks that a Volt is a waste of a charging space, then perhaps I should consider another Prius instead. EV's that are available in Michigan that I can afford (the Model S is not for my paycheck!) don't have the range I need, but the Volt was appealing because it would improve my emissions over my Prius, especially if I could charge at work.
     
  5. jrreno

    jrreno Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile

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    I had a Leaf before our Tesla and ran into several situations where Volt drivers annoyed me. I had one situation where the Volt was parked at a charger, plugged in and fully charged for 12 hours. At an airport I learned about the Volt alarm when I unplugged a fully charged volt to charge my Leaf ( I wasn't getting home without the charge ). Many times I come across Volts fully charged and just preventing any one else to plug in. I have not experienced the same frequency with Leafs or Tesla although I am sure there are those drivers that don't consider others. I think the thing that really frustrated me when we had the Leaf was that I needed the charge to get home and the Volt clearly had a backup. Not so much now we have the Tesla.
     
  6. JeffS

    JeffS Member

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    I'm very interested to see how this develops as well. In my driveway, there's an Expedition Eddie Bauer (tows the boat in style), two 2012 Volts, one 2013 Volt, one 2014 Volt and a 2014 Model S 85. Tesla drivers at an L2 station with 85kWh batteries annoy Volt owners who have a 16kWh battery. Volts at an L2 with a 16kWh batteries and a gas generator irritate Tesla owners? The _________ of both of those complaints is fascinating to me. Volts can't charge above L2. So if they are there, they're ice-holing for sure. But beyond that...? Hmm...

    Also, just for the sake of accuracy, Volts charge L2 from empty to full in well under 4 hours. Only 10.4 usable kWh's in a Gen1 Volt. And (I think) 13 usable in a Gen2 Volt.
     
  7. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    Other BEV's are going to need to use the charging stalls more often and are entitled to use those spaces just as much as anyone else. If you can't use a supercharger in your trip planning, then I would have plan A, B, and C ready using recargo and other apps to locate possible charging alternatives.

    You just witness 1 incident, my neighbor with a Leaf sees this all the time or worse that many of the CHAdeMO stations seem to be in constant state of repair.

    At my office there a 4-6 EV stalls that are free for 2 hours of charging. By 7am, every single one of them is filled with a Leaf or a Volt. I never plug-in because I don't need to, but personally would hate having to vie for a position everyday to charge.
     
  8. LudyX

    LudyX Member

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    I would not get another Prius. The Volt is a awesome "little" car that the fleet is averaging 75% electric miles driven. (We are at 85% electric on our 2013 Volt.) We sold our 2012 Prius V when we bought our 2013 Model S. The Prius is a piece of crap that we drove for 20K miles. If you own, or are considering a Prius, check out the crash test videos. I would NOT want to get into a serious accident in a Prius!!! We will never buy a Toyota ever again.
     
  9. jrreno

    jrreno Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile

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    My issue is not with Volts ( or any plug in ) legitimately using an L2. My issue is when owners do not move their vehicles after they are charged. Leaving you car plugged in at an airport when you will be away for three days is just inconsiderate.
     
  10. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    +1. The issue is not the vehicle. It is that the owners do not move when they are charged to allow others to charge. With a full EV, we are essentially screwed when somebody takes that space when not charging. It has happened to me by both an i3 and a Tesla. As far as the Volt alarm, who cares? If they are charged, then let the car wail away. If they are still charging, then not acceptable to unplug them.

     
  11. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    How are they supposed to move their cars? The owners are most likely away, that's why the car is at the airport I'd think.
     
  12. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    They cannot so they should not park there if they are planning to be parked more than a few hours. It is only appropriate to park there if you are meeting someone or the like.

    Folks like that are either ignorant (thinking that there are so few EV that it doesn't matter), narcissistic, or both.
     
  13. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    It depends on the lot. Was it a short term parking/cell phone waiting lot or regular airport parking? Many long-term airport lots and off-site airport parking lots have level 2 chargers that are clearly put there to be used by travelers. The cars are all charged long before the traveler returns. It would be much more economical for the lot to install a bank of 120V circuits for those cars, but if all they have are level 2 charging stations then that is what I will plug into.
     
  14. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    Let's be considerate of other plug in hybrids and smaller EVs, and support electrification with them! We see a lot of Outlander PHEVs and Leafs at 50kW CHAdeMO stations for 30 minutes - in winter, Leafs do not have battery heaters so they sometimes charge for 60 minutes.
    That's OK I think. It is a society and we need to help each other. Use other chargers if occupied. First come, first served basis.

    That said, I think people who leave charged vehicles at the spot should be penalized. In Japan there are some chargers pay by minute, which stops billing after the cables are disconnected. Very little vehicle being left at such charging spots.
     
  15. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    Here in the United States, the Blink Network announced on 7/13/15, effective 7/20/15: "...after an EV has completed charging, if it remains connected to the charger for more than 15 minutes, then a Charger Occupancy fee of $0.08 per minute will be assessed until the connector is removed."

    Several days later on 7/17/15, the Blink Network sent out a retraction: "...we received a great deal of feedback, both positive and negative. While we understand that not everyone will be supportive of the new policy, we do understand that the new fees may not be practical at all locations. Therefore, in order to review the charger locations more carefully, we have chosen to delay the implementation of the new charger occupancy fees."

    It is difficult to find any occupancy fees when clicking on the station locations: Blink - BlinkMap
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    #16 Jeff N, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
    First, some facts....

    Older Volts like my 2011 charge in about 3hours and 45 minutes on L2. The 2013 and 2015 Volts got slight battery increases but even they should charge in about 4 hours. The 2016 Volt has an 18.4 kWh pack with 14.0 usable (76%) and slightly faster L2 charging and a slightly more efficient battery charger so GM says the charging time is 4 hours and 30 minutes.

    The honking when unplugged during an "active" EVSE session can only be dealer disabled for 2011-2012 Volts (I did this for mine) but can be disabled inside the car using configuration options on the center display beginning in model year 2013. I agree that it's annoying.

    I have a long commute and often use L2 charging at work and at public parking areas so I get to see charging behavior frequently. Anyone who deliberately uses a marked "only while actively charging" plugin charging space as a "privileged" regular parking space just because they have a car that they theoretically could plug in is at least as much of an inconsiderate asshat as someone who ICE's the space with an antique gasser. Similar comments for blocking a DC charger.

    The only pattern among problem parkers that I notice is among recent plugin purchasers who haven't yet been schooled in proper charging etiquette. I've recently seen this by a new Model S driver, for example, but only for a day or so. Overall, I am more likely to see bad behavior at my workplace from LEAF drivers since they predominate.

    I think the Blink model of having a "parking fee" is the right way to address this problem although .08 per minute ($5 per hour) might have been a little too steep and there should be a 15-30 minute "grace" period before the parking fee begins. Market economics and pricing signals work.... I personally met with senior ChargePoint engineers almost 2 years ago to try to convince them to add such a pricing model as an option for their station owners but, for whatever reason, they have chosen not to implement support for that capability.
     
  17. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The EV club I belong to invited a Volt Owners club to a recent meeting, and some of the folks were talking about how they often feel "bullied" (my word) over using public charging stations. But as you say, are they any less deserving of travelling on electricity, and helping to reduce GHG emissions as a result?

    In a congested charging situation, I would hope that common decency would prevail and that a PHEV might yield to a BEV (particularly a low range BEV) who would otherwise be stranded. Unfortunately I've seen all types of EVs (including Teslas) "hogging" charging spots. I've even seen EVs parked in charging spots and not plugged in, presumably because the parking spot was "convenient" for them.
     
  18. ReddyLeaf

    ReddyLeaf Member

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    All good points everyone. I would like to add that many of these problems also stem from inadequate infrastructure or installations.

    For example, I am volunteer consulting with a facility to add charging options. They will be free, open as a public service, and located at a large company facility. The project manager had no idea about these intricacies surrounding EV charging, and left it up to the electrical subcontractor. I have suggested adding more, lower amperage J1772 ClipperCreeks vs a smaller number of higher amperage chargers, especially paypoint ones like ChargePoint. This will likely save the facility $50,000 in installation costs. They also have an offer for two free 80 amp HPWC's which I have recommended that they NOT accept due to limited panel capacity. Anyone driving a Tesla to this location will have charging at home or the Kennewick SC, and thus should not need to add additional miles.

    It is my experience, mostly through internet reading, that free charging brings out everyone (whether they really need it or not to get home) and that this area would be better served with more locations that "only" dispense 16 amp. Our community is fairly small, less than 25 mi across, and all current and future BEV drivers should have no RT range problems, even without charging. PHEV may be a different story. I do know that 2011-12 Volts cannot RT in the winter (and perhaps in a few years, my degraded 2011 Leaf), thus would very much like to charge. These vehicles, as well as the PiP, cannot accept more than 16 amp, so would not fully utilize 40, 60, or 80 amp stations. So, it is my opinion that 10 stations with 20 amps are better than two HPWCs, or five 40 amp stations, especially since most people will park for more than 2 hours.

    Furthermore, to accommodate longer-term parking (e.g, 8-10 work shifts), I have recommended that conduit be added (but not necessarily wired at this time) for a "significant" number of spots, say as many as 100. The project is planning for future gated parking that is limited to staff only (not public). These spots would be ideal for individually circuited 15-20 amp receptacles at each spot. This is a similar situation for airports (I recommended that at our local airport as well). Thus, anyone who absolutely needs an additional 40 mi of range (e.g., a 2011-12 Volt/Leaf, PiP, CMax, etc.), especially in winter, can be assured of obtaining a spot and will not need to "negotiate" with other EVs for access.

    All of these thoughts and recommendations are based on my guess as to the best way to increase electric miles driven on a system-wide basis (not necessarily an individual basis). Every PHEV has it's place and many here have driven multiple vehicles over the years. We need to provide the infrastructure to support EVERY electrified vehicle choice, not just our favorite choice. For example, If Jane Doe sees only two EV parking spots, and they are already filled, she may decide NOT to purchase a Volt or CMax. However, if she sees 20 spots, with at least one open spot everyday, or perhaps even a normal receptacle at every space, it is another reminder that EVs are present, being used, and that she has a safety net for additional charging if she ever needs it. We have a unique "islanded" situation in my community, where it is easy to drive electric in-town, but extremely challenging to connect up with the western WA/OR electric highway system. Therefore, most single car are better served with a PHEV over a BEV.

    I'm confident and able to drive my 2011 Leaf down below VLBW, especially in town, but it's not for everyone. Not everyone is ready to drive electric today, but everyday we will meet someone who could if given the right safety net. Remember, the goal is reduced oil consumption.
     
  19. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    Hi, Mark, thanks for helpful information. Why did Blink retracted the parking fees? Could you give me your idea? Basically parking fees should only be activated on quick chargers.
     
  20. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Kind of an old topic. Who deserves a charging spot more? Any mile driven electric over gas is a win, so let plug in hybrids charge. The problem is the Volt can always make it home, the EV cannot. Is the Volt entitled to charge 100% while the Leaf is not getting anything and has to end up waiting an extra hour or more? Is the one with an almost empty battery more entitled than one with 70%?

    Let's just face it, the honor system doesn't work. Many people are self centered and don't care what would make more sense. I've seen Tesla park in charging spots without charging. I've seen Volts use chargers even though they were full. I've seen many EV owners pull in a charging spot just because it was placed conveniently to do shopping. I've seen many Leafs go to DC chargers only because they got the free charging card from Nissan.

    I've said this many times, one thing that would solve this problem almost entirely is placing chargers in parking spots that are inconvenient. Most of the questionable use of of chargers would be eliminated by that.
     

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