Volts start to annoy me every day more !

[efusco]

The flip side of this coin is how annoyed some Volt, Leaf, Plug-in Prius, etc. owners get when a Tesla is plugged into a L2 spot because they know we are doing so, more often than not, because we can charge there, not because we NEED to charge. This is a brave new world that, as mentioned above, would be much easier to navigate if the infrastructure was better. I think, honestly, the long term solution will be to eliminate free charging completely. You get charged for the energy you use and additional hourly charges while connected. Suddently Tesla owners would think twice about "just topping up", Volt owners would move their cars as soon as they were topped up, and Leaf drivers would probably just charge at home.

 

[apacheguy]

Good point. I've run into this problem on a couple occasions. I never seek out charging spots in the Model S simply because I want to get some free electrons. I always charge at home and find this to be by the far the most convenient option.

However, what do I do at Whole Foods when most other spots are taken and I see a convenient opening at a VoltaLA charging spot right in front with an EV only marker? I park there of course, as do other Tesla's, Volts, and Leafs. (Full disclosure: I also drive a Leaf and have done the same even tho I don't need the charge in that car either) I don't need to plug in, but I don't want to look like a jerk that is just jacking an EV only parking space, so I plug in.

I'm not going to circle the parking lot looking for a spot when there's an opening at a space marked EVs only. What do you do?

 

[mknox]

The flip side of this coin is how annoyed some Volt, Leaf, Plug-in Prius, etc. owners get when a Tesla is plugged into a L2 spot because they know we are doing so, more often than not, because we can charge there, not because we NEED to charge.

I've heard it argued that by parking and using these spots even if you don't "need" to, it will send a message to the site owner that the investment was worth it and people are using them. And it will show passersby that EVs are out there and common. This probably makes sense in the early days or where EVs are less prevalent.

I've said this many times, one thing that would solve this problem almost entirely is placing chargers in parking spots that are inconvenient. Most of the questionable use of of chargers would be eliminated by that.

Or charge a nominal fee, ideally by time spent in the spot. Most chargers are put in those "preferred" spots near the building solely because of the infrastructure costs of ducts and cabling to move them farther out in the lot.

 

[MichFin]

This whole thread is a moot point because all the next generation cars are going to have 200+ miles of range and the need to charge everywhere will be minimal.

I own a Volt and a Tesla in Michigan and it's the opposite... I always plug in just so that people see these charging stations are actually being used. Most of the time they sit empty or ICE'd.

 

[dgpcolorado]

This whole thread is a moot point because all the next generation cars are going to have 200+ miles of range and the need to charge everywhere will be minimal.

I agree that this issue should be moot in a few years.

I own a Volt and a Tesla in Michigan and it's the opposite... I always plug in just so that people see these charging stations are actually being used. Most of the time they sit empty or ICE'd.

I do the same with my LEAF. Two cities in my area went to the trouble and expense of installing public charge stations and the least I can do is charge my car there to show them being used (and those behind the installation have told me that they appreciate it). Since the EVSEs have two cords I am not blocking someone else from using the adjacent space, although it is rare to share the charge station with another EV. In one case I really do need some charge to take the longer, paved, route home — especially in winter — and for the other charge station I don't.

 

[David99]

This whole thread is a moot point because all the next generation cars are going to have 200+ miles of range and the need to charge everywhere will be minimal.

The problem isn't the lack or range, it is the convenience of a better parking spot and getting free electricity. Volt's don't have any range issues as of today, neither do Teslas, yet both are offenders. I see it a lot. Even if 200 mile EVs are common, this behavior won't change. Perfect example here in my city where they have 9 free chargers all within half a mile. It's mostly locals and regulars that charge there because it's convenient and free. They don't need it to make it home. But even if we have 200 mile EV, there still will be plenty sub 100 mile EVs for those who can only pay $15k for a car or less.

Making charging payed or expensive won't help either. I see it all the time around Los Angeles. People plug in and never swipe their card. They just want the convenient parking spot. It's not the exception, I see it a lot on payed chargers. No one enforces it.

Yes sometimes Chargers are placed near the building because of practical reasons, for example in any multi level parking structure, going up 2 levels would add a very small amount of extra cable/cost to the entire installation. Many times chargers are installed near the front entrance while there would be less desirable spots just as close to the building in the rear side.

 

[AMPUP]

It's first come first served at the airport, sorry but if you arrived with not enough juice to get home unless charging then it's your own fault. A volt driver has as much right to charge as any other.

Plan ahead people.

If I remember right only the 2011 volts had the alarm that went off, 2012's and above you could set it to not go off and if you read the volt forums 90% of folks are ok if you unplug if the green dash light isn't on solid.

 

[roblab]

OK, I guess I have seen this coming for years.

Every public spirited group that has wanted to put in chargers, in order to promote clean, green driving, wants to put them in right by the front door. And make them free.

And every human being wants to be first in line and pay nothing. How strange!

I have advocated for years, as in over 15, that anyone needing a charge should be able to walk a little bit for it. It should be in the back lot. And it wouldn't hurt to have to pay for it. As it is, everyone wants to park near the front door and thumb their noses at all the gas cars that have to pay to drive.

I don't see it getting any better until we get our priorities straight. Did you need to charge? Or did you just want to drive up close to the store entrance and park so you don't have to pay the ridiculously inexpensive rate at home, for driving around town. Can't have it both ways.

And therefore, applause to Tesla, who require that you pay (must own a Tesla) for the ability to charge really fast, and has its chargers at freeway exits, not at Costco, Walmart, and CVS pharmacy. Well Done!!! Hopefully others will get it and follow the LEADER.

 

[apacheguy]

Agree. Eventually free charging will have to go. Charge doesn't even need to be that exorbitant. $0.15 per kWh will be enough to scare off most folks. I really dislike the ones that try to gouge you and charge over $0.50 per kWh when in fact it costs them far less to deliver.

 

[mknox]

Every public spirited group that has wanted to put in chargers, in order to promote clean, green driving, wants to put them in right by the front door. And make them free.

I have advocated for years, as in over 15, that anyone needing a charge should be able to walk a little bit for it. It should be in the back lot.

As I mentioned above, I don't think that is the real reason, although there may be a few exceptions. The issue is that the electrical supply is in the building, and the farther away from the building you go, the more expensive the installation gets. And by a very significant amount. I faced this dilemma when I installed units in my company's employee/visitor lot. I really wanted them out in the back of the lot, and it could have been "easily" done, but the economics just weren't feasible. The trenching, duct-work and cable costs would have been through the roof.

 

[efusco]

Agree. Eventually free charging will have to go. Charge doesn't even need to be that exorbitant. $0.15 per kWh will be enough to scare off most folks. I really dislike the ones that try to gouge you and charge over $0.50 per kWh when in fact it costs them far less to deliver.

I agree...I still plug in in my area because it's free and the spaces are convenient and I do want to show that there is a demand for these chargers...but we are very late comers in SW MO to this new-fangled EV thing. But if I had to pay...I would probably never use the local chargers unless it was as cheap or cheaper than I pay at home $0.11/kW

 

[AB4EJ]

Let's be considerate of other plug in hybrids and smaller EVs, and support electrification with them! We see a lot of Outlander PHEVs and Leafs at 50kW CHAdeMO stations for 30 minutes - in winter, Leafs do not have battery heaters so they sometimes charge for 60 minutes.
That's OK I think. It is a society and we need to help each other. Use other chargers if occupied. First come, first served basis.

That said, I think people who leave charged vehicles at the spot should be penalized. In Japan there are some chargers pay by minute, which stops billing after the cables are disconnected. Very little vehicle being left at such charging spots.

Here at Univ. of Alabama the ChargePoint stations are configured to enforce this - you can charge at 85 cents per hour for up to 4 hours, then the fee goes to $25.00 per hour. (This is based on the car being plugged in, even if drawing no charge current). There is no such thing as forgetting to move your car once charged - unless you don't mind getting a bill for $100.

In the case of the airport, I agree that it is pretty inconsiderate to plug your car into a L2 charger and then jet off for days. A few airports are starting to install L1 or simple 110v outlets (110v trickle) in numerous slots just for this reason. We should try and educate the folks who design such systems for airports, and request some slots for this.

 

[TexasEV]

In the case of the airport, I agree that it is pretty inconsiderate to plug your car into a L2 charger and then jet off for days. A few airports are starting to install L1 or simple 110v outlets (110v trickle) in numerous slots just for this reason. We should try and educate the folks who design such systems for airports, and request some slots for this.

No it's not-- if the level 2 charging stations are in the lot or garage intended for travelers. That's what they're there for. Of course airports could save a lot of money by installing 120V outlets on individual circuits for this purpose rather than level 2 charging stations, but no one makes any money selling those as ChargePoint, etc. do by selling their overpriced charging stations, so most airports are clueless that level 1 charging is all EV drivers need if they're parked for a few days. They're trying to do the right thing to accommodate EV drivers and don't know they're spending much more than they need to.

 

[RDoc]

No it's not-- if the level 2 charging stations are in the lot or garage intended for travelers. That's what they're there for. Of course airports could save a lot of money by installing 120V outlets on individual circuits for this purpose rather than level 2 charging stations, but no one makes any money selling those as ChargePoint, etc. do by selling their overpriced charging stations, so most airports are clueless that level 1 charging is all EV drivers need if they're parked for a few days. They're trying to do the right thing to accommodate EV drivers and don't know they're spending much more than they need to.

Totally agree!

 

[AMPUP]

No it's not-- if the level 2 charging stations are in the lot or garage intended for travelers. That's what they're there for. Of course airports could save a lot of money by installing 120V outlets on individual circuits for this purpose rather than level 2 charging stations, but no one makes any money selling those as ChargePoint, etc. do by selling their overpriced charging stations, so most airports are clueless that level 1 charging is all EV drivers need if they're parked for a few days. They're trying to do the right thing to accommodate EV drivers and don't know they're spending much more than they need to.

Agreed as I posted above, first come first served. Don't rely on getting a charge at an airport arrive with enough juice to get home.

 

[mknox]

Agreed as I posted above, first come first served. Don't rely on getting a charge at an airport arrive with enough juice to get home.

I have not used them as I live very close to the airport, but I understand Toronto (YYZ) has a few Level 2 units in the valet area. They will move cars around to make sure cars are charged up when the owners get back. But banks of Level 1 (120 volt) outlets in the self-park makes a lot of sense.

Question: Would people be concerned leaving their expensive UMC exposed in a public lot like this? I realize it locks to the car, but that wouldn't stop someone from cutting the cable and making it into a Jesla.

 

[hiroshiy]

Here at Univ. of Alabama the ChargePoint stations are configured to enforce this - you can charge at 85 cents per hour for up to 4 hours, then the fee goes to $25.00 per hour. (This is based on the car being plugged in, even if drawing no charge current). There is no such thing as forgetting to move your car once charged - unless you don't mind getting a bill for $100.

In the case of the airport, I agree that it is pretty inconsiderate to plug your car into a L2 charger and then jet off for days. A few airports are starting to install L1 or simple 110v outlets (110v trickle) in numerous slots just for this reason. We should try and educate the folks who design such systems for airports, and request some slots for this.

Wow, $25 per hour after four hours sounds great. Hope many charging spots follow this lead.

 

[Beryl]

Here at Univ. of Alabama the ChargePoint stations are configured to enforce this - you can charge at 85 cents per hour for up to 4 hours, then the fee goes to $25.00 per hour. (This is based on the car being plugged in, even if drawing no charge current). There is no such thing as forgetting to move your car once charged - unless you don't mind getting a bill for $100.

In the case of the airport, I agree that it is pretty inconsiderate to plug your car into a L2 charger and then jet off for days. A few airports are starting to install L1 or simple 110v outlets (110v trickle) in numerous slots just for this reason. We should try and educate the folks who design such systems for airports, and request some slots for this.

Charging a lot more is a good approach. Add towing after 8 or 12 hours at L2 chargers and something similar (but longer permitted charging times) for 110v outlets and most people will be more responsible parking at these spots, IMO.

 

[Cottonwood]

Here at Univ. of Alabama the ChargePoint stations are configured to enforce this - you can charge at 85 cents per hour for up to 4 hours, then the fee goes to $25.00 per hour. (This is based on the car being plugged in, even if drawing no charge current). There is no such thing as forgetting to move your car once charged - unless you don't mind getting a bill for $100.

In the case of the airport, I agree that it is pretty inconsiderate to plug your car into a L2 charger and then jet off for days. A few airports are starting to install L1 or simple 110v outlets (110v trickle) in numerous slots just for this reason. We should try and educate the folks who design such systems for airports, and request some slots for this.

I believe that billing like this can be very effective. I know of a Preschool that was having a problem with parents picking up their kids late. They went to a $1 per minute late charge, after a 20 minute grace period. All of a sudden, parents showed up on time to get their kids.

 

[David99]

As I said earlier, cost won't help. I used to not have a home charger for 5 months and visted a lot of public chargers around Los Angeles. People park at the convenient EV charging station, plug in but never activate the charger to avoid paying. I have seen so many times. The core problem is many EV drivers just want a premium parking spot. That's really what it comes down to. At Disneyland Anaheim they have 20 chargers. They put them in absolute prime location. Many times I went I checked the displays on the chargers. I would say about 1/3 plugged in but were not charging. They only wanted the better parking location. Same at popular mall I used to live next to. The management never enforced it. People would just pull in, plug in and walk away without starting the charger, all the time.
High cost for charging just encourages people to cheat and not charge, they are still going to park their EV there. I see people getting towed and ticketed almost every day here in LA, but I have never seen an EV getting a ticket or even towed for not charging at a station.