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Vote on software features/bugs to fix in 7.1 and beyond

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Thanks again for your leadership with this. I only hope Tesla makes use of the well-intentioned information.

I *never* quote Tesla employees.

However, I may have been assured that if I prepare the data/links/results to send, that it could get it to the right person. Now, there was absolutely no guarantee this person would do anything about it. But it seemed to me like our best inside chance.
 
I *never* quote Tesla employees.

However, I may have been assured that if I prepare the data/links/results to send, that it could get it to the right person. Now, there was absolutely no guarantee this person would do anything about it. But it seemed to me like our best inside chance.

Understood. ;) ...but your post also gives me a lot more hope than always wondering who may be stealtlhy prowling these threads and to what degree the info is just smirked at or perhaps being used -- especially something like this where the community is making a concerted effort to not just moan and groan, but truly help. Thx.
 
Understood. ;) ...but your post also gives me a lot more hope than always wondering who may be stealtlhy prowling these threads and to what degree the info is just smirked at or perhaps being used -- especially something like this where the community is making a concerted effort to not just moan and groan, but truly help. Thx.

Yes, I think this is one of those rare issues where it isnt just owner's driver seat quarterbacking telling Tesla how to do this and do that because we think we could do it better. In this case, we have very real feedback from very real owners (and potential buyers) that clear states 2 things:

1. These are features that would benefit your ownership base, not only because other manufactures may have them already, but because they are useful and would continue to communicate to owners and non-owners, that Tesla is still invested after the sale.
2. These are features that potential buyers would want. They are features that would even decide a sale for a potential buyer. And it also communicates to a potential buyer, "Hey, here is the car now. But as you drive it, if you see something that you need or would be helpful, let us know so we can make it better." If you recall, that was a huge selling point when all of us were potential buyers, and I would submit that Tesla has come through, albeit a slower process than some might like.
 
Once the cleanup is complete are you able to prevent the creation of new ideas?

Then you could possibly do some new posts here and on the official forums to try to get votes.

You are right on target.

Here is what I was thinking in terms of chronology


  • Clean up the categories: by end of weekend <-have already been working on this.
    • Remove duplicates: where votes are low or zero
    • Re-categorize those things that are obviously in the wrong spot: where votes are low or zero
    • Ask for clarity on ideas that are not clear enough to execute and delete if they remain unclear
  • Set a voting deadline: 7 more days after clean up
  • Publish the raw data for everyone and provide a summary
    • Tie together ideas that are basically the same or variations on a theme
      • Ideas that are basically duplicate will have voting combined so we don't over count
      • Some ideas become categories on their own
    • Add some graphs and charts
    • Identify bugs vs. features: It is not a bug just because you want it to work a certain way
    • I may try to t-shirt size things as well
  • Build next generation of idea lists with new categories based on what we learned from gen 1
    • Include ideas that remain unexecuted from the first set of categories
  • Lather, rinse, repeat?

We can encounter a bit of voting exhaustion so we should be careful about how many times we put things back out for a vote. There is plenty of work, already, to tie up a pretty large development team.
 
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You are right on target.

Here is what I was thinking in terms of chronology


  • Clean up the categories: by end of weekend <-have already been working on this.
    • Remove duplicates: where votes are low or zero
    • Re-categorize those things that are obviously in the wrong spot: where votes are low or zero
    • Ask for clarity on ideas that are not clear enough to execute and delete if they remain unclear
  • Set a voting deadline: 7 more days after clean up
  • Publish the raw data for everyone and provide a summary
    • Tie together ideas that are basically the same or variations on a theme
      • Ideas that are basically duplicate will have voting combined so we don't over count
      • Some ideas become categories on their own
    • Add some graphs and charts
    • Identify bugs vs. features: It is not a bug just because you want it to work a certain way
  • Build next generation of idea lists with new categories based on what we learned from gen 1
    • Include ideas that remain unexecuted from the first set of categories
  • Lather, rinse, repeat?

We can encounter a bit of voting exhaustion so we should be careful about how many times we put things back out for a vote. There is plenty of work, already, to tie up a pretty large development team.

You're doing a lot of great work on this! Thanks!

The plan above sounds good.

One suggestion that I would make is that you attempt to record the raw numbers of people who have voted for the various suggestions (or combined suggestions) so that when the final list is presented to Tesla, it will include, at least in rough terms, some data to demonstrate how many people have expressed interest in the different suggestions. It's entirely possible that people who voted early on in the process may not come back to vote again, so recording the numbers will insure that the data you wind up presenting to Tesla does not understate the level of interest in the various suggestions.
 
You're doing a lot of great work on this! Thanks!

The plan above sounds good.

One suggestion that I would make is that you attempt to record the raw numbers of people who have voted for the various suggestions (or combined suggestions) so that when the final list is presented to Tesla, it will include, at least in rough terms, some data to demonstrate how many people have expressed interest in the different suggestions. It's entirely possible that people who voted early on in the process may not come back to vote again, so recording the numbers will insure that the data you wind up presenting to Tesla does not understate the level of interest in the various suggestions.

Excellent point.
 
..and Korben, two others thoughts FWIW:

- If you end up combining some duplicate items, I don't how the names of people are organized on each one, but you can't just combine them... I know I have for example at least in one or two places voted for what I'd consider the same thing in two different, or at least very similar, entries -- and my vote should not be double counted in a combined suggestion.

- I'm all for clean-up, but I'd suggest as long as an item has more than 1 vote, you still include it. There may be some themes Tesla picks up on, or frankly, while some of the items may not be of interest to as large a number, but may be a big deal to those that have cast the vote (e.g. 7.0 UI uses 100% of the IP, but IMHO does not take into account that items now at the top of the screen and in the upper corners are hidden by the steering wheel for more users than in 6.2... Small number of votes, but it's a big deal for those with the issue that I have this sneaking suspicion engineers sitting at desk doing design/testing wouldn't encounter except if they really lived with it behind the wheel like owners do. There are a couple others like that, that are not important to me, but are I suspect to people in Europe or in very cold climates that simply are not on my radar, hence I didn't vote for them... Others may have well taken the same approach, and if so, I think there would be value in Tesla getting even the lower vote items as long as there is more than one or two so we get rid of perhaps noise... At least I used to like being able to scan all the data in addition to the summary, when I had surveys conducted for various things in my day -- some made their way in because code was open for something else and it was easy to do, or frankly they stirred up a different twist we ended up prioritizing one day...)

Thx. Bert
 
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Regarding timeline, if this method is appreciated and well received (Tesla actually implements), then we should repeat this process once a quarter.

Sounds like a good plan. I feel like some of these are going to be quick wins for Tesla and the community. Others, while highly desired, are going to be incredibly difficult.

WRT duplication. Good news is that with the list of names attached to each idea it is somewhat straightforward to munge things together and get a more accurate count for duplicate features. The key is to provide the raw data along with the summary so that if you want to dig into what was really meant you would be able to do so. For the next round we can do a lot more coaching on how to stick with categories and during the summary process we can propose and debate what those categories should be. We have to explain to a very diverse audience in a simple and consistent way.

We can do a much better job explaining categories/features/bugs for the next round of voting. I am thinking that we should keep the ideas in the new round of voting until they are implemented. Otherwise, they will just keep getting resubmitted.:smile:
 
Sounds like a good plan. I feel like some of these are going to be quick wins for Tesla and the community.

It's good that you're an optimist.

I'm an optimist too, but I've lost a lot of optimism when it comes to Tesla and software development. We've seen time and again that just because an idea seems incredibly easy to implement, and is one that would benefit a lot of people, that doesn't mean it's something that Tesla is going to prioritize.

I'm really glad you're doing this, and I hope I am mistaken. I just don't want you to be disappointed.
 
+1. Tesla doesn't care about simplifying the user interface to make driving safer, nor do they care very much about drivers of classic Model S's in general. They prioritize cool things like Autopilot that will garner the best press attention and make Elon happy, and leave us by the side of the road. I love my P85, but I have fallen out of love with the company.
 
It's good that you're an optimist.

I'm an optimist too, but I've lost a lot of optimism when it comes to Tesla and software development. We've seen time and again that just because an idea seems incredibly easy to implement, and is one that would benefit a lot of people, that doesn't mean it's something that Tesla is going to prioritize.

I'm really glad you're doing this, and I hope I am mistaken. I just don't want you to be disappointed.

I choose to believe Autopilot rollout was taking the lion's share of their dev efforts. And now that brunt of that is out in the wild, they will have more time for these user interface tweaks.

- - - Updated - - -

+1. Tesla doesn't care about simplifying the user interface to make driving safer, nor do they care very much about drivers of classic Model S's in general. They prioritize cool things like Autopilot that will garner the best press attention and make Elon happy, and leave us by the side of the road. I love my P85, but I have fallen out of love with the company.

I have't gotten to the place you are at yet, but I do understand the frustration of seeing the interface day after day with features missing that would clearly be of use AND be fairly easy to implement.
 
+1. Tesla doesn't care about simplifying the user interface to make driving safer, nor do they care very much about drivers of classic Model S's in general. They prioritize cool things like Autopilot that will garner the best press attention and make Elon happy, and leave us by the side of the road. I love my P85, but I have fallen out of love with the company.
7.0 included improvements to AC performance, improved "hill hold", torque sleep for RWD cars, and other changes that are not just for the newest cars.

They had to prioritize AP features, since those features were almost a year late, but that does not mean the older cars are abandon.

I expect coming updates will include the media player, browser and general UI improvements which are for all cars.
 
Sounds like a good plan. I feel like some of these are going to be quick wins for Tesla and the community. Others, while highly desired, are going to be incredibly difficult.

WRT duplication. Good news is that with the list of names attached to each idea it is somewhat straightforward to munge things together and get a more accurate count for duplicate features. The key is to provide the raw data along with the summary so that if you want to dig into what was really meant you would be able to do so. For the next round we can do a lot more coaching on how to stick with categories and during the summary process we can propose and debate what those categories should be. We have to explain to a very diverse audience in a simple and consistent way.

We can do a much better job explaining categories/features/bugs for the next round of voting. I am thinking that we should keep the ideas in the new round of voting until they are implemented. Otherwise, they will just keep getting resubmitted.:smile:

Yes, the challenge is it can become a full time job if you're not careful, and in the current method that is 1000% better than what Tesla seems to be doing on their own (I'm not dissing this great work at all!), we're still not collecting demographics on people voting so Tesla can put some sort of priority on votes from true owners that have purchased or in their view may purchase, vs others just chiming in because they can on mechanisms like these. We also don't collect matching geography from people that vote that will likely be important to Tesla in considering markets they are already in vs where they want to be, as well as where they may want to prioritize some of the requests for any number of marketing reasons, and then ultimately build a cost/benefit analysis for each item... I could sometimes just slip tactical tweaks and enhancements into my former business because I decided to and "owned" those resources within my own organization, vs larger strategic changes that would sometimes have broader visibility, need outside resources, or possibly impact other things where I'd need to justify it to someone. The challenge was some things IMHO were needed to enter or grow new markets in some geos, and the requests by themselves from some of those places (or distinct customer demographic) would have never been prioritized because of their smaller numbers, if I didn't have that geographic and demographic view to go along with the big summary numbers. Tesla does not have unlimited resources, so I suspect will end up wondering what to do with some of this cut's data as they get down into the list. IMHO, and without knowledge of Tesla business, marketing and financial plan detail, at least a few of some of the lower voted items appear awfully important to certain geo or demo-graphics... Tesla has smart people, so hopefully picks up on that.

Best case, and this is really wishful thinking, is Tesla will see what this first cut has provided -- and could provide in a next round with just a little more internal focus -- to establish their own internal priority based on this good work you have spearheaded, and create a more formal cross-representative advisory council like other major brands have, along with a more analytical method to collect input/voting with correlated demographics of the people submitting them, that isn't as subjective and prone to false-positives as using Tweets that has been promoted thus far. I'm at least one real 3Q15 Tesla owner that does not do the Tweetie and Facebook thing, and provided zero input to Elon's former request, but spent considerable time attempting to provide meaningful thought and input to the structure you've provided for us. ;)

One of the other things we have to consider here is people voting will become disenchanted if "their own" top priorities are not acted upon in some near term. It's just the way many people are. I personally don't expect Tesla to formally respond to what has been put together, but that isn't going to stop people from grousing either, once the summary is out and a 7.1 comes out that does not include every little request people have made. ;) It makes me wonder to what degree round two, then round three of this gets as much attention ... especially if done too often... E.g. Quarterly may well be too often since were doing this with no visibility to Tesla's internal priorities and turnaround until we happen to see some feature change in a future software release weeks or months from now... As has been said, Tesla/Elon has been very focused on Autopilot and such -- lets hope they get back to more pririotization of some of the not-as-sexy, but really usable things such as Media Player and other enhancement that just catch up to the competition and make our MS more usable in their current form. As has also been said, many of the items being suggested are absolutely transportable to M3. Time to just balance out usability with new functionality, even if usability does not get quite the press things like Autopilot do. ;)
 
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Before the list is sent to Tesla, it would be nice if people could check the list and make sure they see the ones added later.

There are some good suggestion that will only have a few votes, because they were not there early in the voting.

I would be great if Tesla could get involved and send out an email to all owners. Or set up their own survey based on these lists and request broad customer feedback.
 
I have 20 minutes to respond so apologies for not quoting everyone who I am responding to or dialoging with. It is really good to see those with similar experience speak up and call out what I also perceive as likely outcomes.


  • Yes, I am a very optimistic person. However, that does not mean I expect Tesla to
    • Respond directly to the voting
    • Do everything we identify as wants/desires/needs

I really hope that everyone understands that this is pretty typical behavior from a company like Tesla.

I have been on all sides of the equation and am really just trying to do what I occasionally wished my customers would do for me. There are two things to balance here and you have to do both.


  • Transformational and revolutionary features: If Tesla does not maintain the momentum they won't win the market.
  • Ground truth and basic requirements: This is basically fixing bugs and making sure that they have enough basic feature parity to not look ridiculous.

My thesis is that we don't have to worry about Tesla doing or finding revolutionary things to do. They seem to have that solidly in hand. However, they need to make sure they keep their eye on the basics and sustain investment in growing those things that have become common in other luxury and economy brands. Going big requires both objectives to be front and center. We definitely need to keep thinking about cadence as we ask for things in either one of those channels. I am guessing that Tesla is an agile shop or some variant and harmonizing with their development cycle seems like a good way to ensure they see the list frequently. Perhaps we can help groom their backlog. :smile:

I do want to address another thought that I saw expressed in a thread somewhere on this forum. Developers are not usually fungible. The people working on machine learning are quite different than your UI people as one simple example. Tesla has to fund development teams and you don't spin up or spin down a dev team overnight. This means that we will get the speed that we get until Tesla decides to change or grow their roster in the areas where development seems most urgent.

When we set the final voting timeframe (post this weekend). We should all encourage one last get out the vote campaign. This is the best way I can see to ensure everyone has a thoughtful read of the entire list of ideas.
 
The Clock is Ticking

One Week Left to Vote

We have one week left to vote. Please review ideas in each category and make sure you have placed your vote. More detailed results will follow after we close the polls. When the polls are closed we will post the raw data for everyone to use as they see fit.


Top 10 Voters (by number of votes)
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Top 10 Ideas (by number of voters)
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So far we have a total of 2193 votes and 206 voters. Our top category for ideas is UI with 82 ideas submitted. Followed by media with 47 ideas.

Please don't just vote for the top ideas. Start from the bottom of the list if you want to make sure you are getting through it all.

Here is a refresher on the categories. Please do your best to stick with the categories! Try to avoid the miscellaneous category and remember this is about software, not hardware.

 
FYI, Bjorn just did a feature request video with some of the suggestions we've already come up with. Since he is basically a celebrity around here and since he has some really great ideas, we should do our best to make him aware of this thread and see if he has any useful suggestions to enter himself.

Tesla software 7.1 suggestions : teslamotors

Thanks. I saw his suggestions and I like Bjorn but I think ours are much better! Sorry Bjorn.