I have definitely experienced instability with crosswinds in the Model S. My old car was a Volvo v50 and I travel the same highway roads all the time, and I've never seen such a thing before. It is unsettling for sure, particularly in such an expensive and low-to-the-ground car. It makes you feel like you are in an empty panel van or something, the way the wind actually seems to move the car.
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Vulnerable to crosswinds on highway? NOT!
- Thread starter kinddog
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
mknox
Well-Known Member
I agree, and even without crosswinds, the car moves from side to side. I can actually feel my head bob from side to side when I'm on the freeway. Hopefully and alignment will correct this.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
mknox,
I think you will find that the willingness to hunt pavement grooves is partially associated with running near zero toe front and rear. This probably will not change with an alignment unless a decision has been made to decrease hunting at the expense of range.
I think you will find that the willingness to hunt pavement grooves is partially associated with running near zero toe front and rear. This probably will not change with an alignment unless a decision has been made to decrease hunting at the expense of range.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I have to admit to being fairly ignorant when it comes to alignment geometry. I've been fortunate in the past in that I don't think I've ever had or needed an alignment (except once after a minor accident) and my cars have always run straight and true. The Model S is noticeably "wobbly" on the freeway, and I wouldn't have even thought of an alignment, because it isn't "pulling" left or right. Others have suggested (and even found themselves) that an alignment has fixed this, but as you say, it may have been at the expense of adding some rolling resistance.
Learning a lot from these forums!
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I'm going to back off from the absolute nature of my original comment and say the following-
Low amounts of toe in (toe in being when a pair of wheels, either front or rear, are pointed in just a bit from straight ahead) has allowed cars to hunt more. I base this from things like running Daytona where we took all the toe in out of the car to provide the best top speed and that always resulted in the car following any little groove it could find on the track. My MS does exactly the same thing whenever there are rain grooves in the highway and I quickly assumed it was the lack of toe causing the sensation. I had the last little bit of toe in removed on the last alignment which made the car hunt just a tad bit more (thus reinforcing my assumption).
The back of my MS is too compliant in side loading which manifests itself as squishy transient response. A good example for me is if I wiggle the wheel at 60 mph the front is reasonably responsive while the back of the car just kind of slops back and forth. I attribute this primarily to the rubber isolation bushings in the suspension and, to a much lesser extent, shock valving. I think this is what the P+ package is all about.
All the above being said, I have read threads where there have been very real problems with (loose?) stuff in the rear suspensions of MS. Owners have taken their cars to service, the problems have been found and the owners were much happier afterwards. I do not want to tell you all about my ideas about stability only to find out that you're actually experiencing something that is loose in the car so please take my comments with a grain of salt.
Low amounts of toe in (toe in being when a pair of wheels, either front or rear, are pointed in just a bit from straight ahead) has allowed cars to hunt more. I base this from things like running Daytona where we took all the toe in out of the car to provide the best top speed and that always resulted in the car following any little groove it could find on the track. My MS does exactly the same thing whenever there are rain grooves in the highway and I quickly assumed it was the lack of toe causing the sensation. I had the last little bit of toe in removed on the last alignment which made the car hunt just a tad bit more (thus reinforcing my assumption).
The back of my MS is too compliant in side loading which manifests itself as squishy transient response. A good example for me is if I wiggle the wheel at 60 mph the front is reasonably responsive while the back of the car just kind of slops back and forth. I attribute this primarily to the rubber isolation bushings in the suspension and, to a much lesser extent, shock valving. I think this is what the P+ package is all about.
All the above being said, I have read threads where there have been very real problems with (loose?) stuff in the rear suspensions of MS. Owners have taken their cars to service, the problems have been found and the owners were much happier afterwards. I do not want to tell you all about my ideas about stability only to find out that you're actually experiencing something that is loose in the car so please take my comments with a grain of salt.
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