SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I wondered about this too, but the photos were not suggestive
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VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout
- Thread starter RubberToe
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- Energy Environment Policy
Good question. And even if they do out of the settlement money, that would have to be for a limited time.
And then what?
With the state of 3rd party charging networks today, and the relatively frequent reports of disrepair, this is something that I see as possibly hampering an effective rollout...
@SageBrush Take a look at ~16:30 in this video to see the problem getting to a charge port. Sure it isn't the same chargers/layout that EVA is using, but I think it shows that given the wide range of charge port locations will present a problem for universal charge stations.
The settlements are written with service guarantees and I'm pretty sure O&M is included in the expenditures allowed under the settlement. So, nothing you mentioned will hamper the rollout. The only concern is what will happen to the network after the initial 10 year settlement period. One would hope that after spending all that money that it would be able to operate in the black from usage charges.
If they are using an extra cable to solve the problem of how to reach charge ports in different locations on the car, then they aren't very creative, or dare I say, intelligent. If you look at the layout in the most recent picture in this thread, the pedestals are located in a virtual island between two parking spaces with the pedestals mounted at the mid-point of the length of the parking stall, with one "pump" facing each space. All you have to do is make the space a little longer than a typical shopping mall parking space. This way, the customer can park shallow in the space or deep in the space and could reach a front or rear charge port. Head-in or back-in would handle the driver's side vs. passenger side issue. This is not rocket science.
Yes, that could work, if the site has space to allow extra deep charging spaces. Not every site is going to support that. (Unless you only installed at sites that could, which would likely greatly limit their options.)
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Is the intention that the cabinets are between parking bays in all stalls? Seems like a huge waste of space to me (half a parking bay maybe, for each cabinet?), particularly in countries where space is a luxury. Surely cabinet at the end and hose long enough to reach either side of vehicle, would be fine?
Not sure about $400 per month, perhaps I've missed something? Commute-distance in USA may be further than here
My wife's commute is further than average, 40 miles each way, so 80 miles per day, 5 days a week, call it 120 kWh per week at around 0.10 to 0.20 per kWh perhaps/ (allowing for currency etc.), that's only 50.00 - 100.00 per month.
Is that already a thing in USA, or a "coming thing"? In UK we have what is called "Benefit in Kind" (where you derive some benefit from an, otherwise, freebie that the Employer provides). Such BiK (Provision of a company car; company payment of fuel for private usage, etc.) are taxable, but electricity-as-a-fuel is not one of those things (yet ... although i suspect that a road-tax will replace the current fuel-duty-tax (on Petrol / Diesel) in order to tax EV users by-the-mile, rather than the much more onerous [for Employer] meter-electricity-used-by-employees).
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
All the 3rd party public chargers we currently have in UK are on the kerb. Scratching my head as to why that won't do, in future.
Or make them drive-through, so more like the ICE fuelling experience, and allowing trailer-users to charge without unhitching.
Quite right. The European charging provider Fastned already uses the "fueling island" style of pedestal placement. Some of the Ionity renders show the same thing. However, this requires more space and redesign while Electrify America appears to be trying to follow Tesla's lead and convert existing parking stalls. However, Tesla has the advantage of uniform charge port placement.
https://electrek.co/2018/03/02/ultra-fast-electric-vehicle-charging-network-fastned-europe/
https://electrek.co/2018/03/07/germ...y-high-powered-electric-car-charging-network/
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
So ...what the designer envisaged:
and what the engineer built:
and what the engineer built:
Not sure about $400 per month, perhaps I've missed something? Commute-distance in USA may be further than here
For many businesses in the US now, most your bill is not for the power you use, but the power you COULD use. This is called demand metering, and it's based on the highest power load in a 15 minute period during the month. That number determines most your bill.
Example:
If your company is open 15 minutes a month and you turn on all the lights and AC and it pulls 100kW for that 15 minutes, your bill is $1,800 for that 25 kWh of power that month in Los Angeles off-peak. It's higher "on-peak".
But the power itself is also about $0.08/kWh so add $2 to that.
If you have Demand Metering, the worst possible electrical device a business can buy is a high powered electric vehicle charging system. While it won't actually consume a lot of kWh, it will spike your Demand up quite a bit more than AC units, machines, compressors, welders, etc.
There are lots of pictures of the locations. e.g.this one showing a location with 4 cabinet pairs, (ie 8 cabinets) and 16 cables
at the top of https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan
Having dug in to the details, there were no live locations at the start of last month.
There are now 4 live locations, with 22 to 26 150kW and 350kW cabinets. (i.e. 11 to 13 of the 4-cable cabinet pairs).
All are at an Interstate junction, some are where interstates meet.
They're going to have to ramp up the go-live rate to hit their announced timetable.
One would hope... but consortiums have a way of managing to find a way to disappoint.
One of the issues I suspect will simply be the sustainability of the financial model. At $1 + $0.30/min for a charging session, my suspicion is that isn't much more than the energy charges, specifically at higher rates.
Heck, if they get cars capable of anywhere near 350KW, then they will absolutely lose money at those prices. Assume with taper that a half hour charge session only averages 240KW... that's still 120KWh for a grand total of $10. That's only 8.3 cents a KWh. That's below consumer rate for many areas, never mind demand charges. Even the 150KW stalls are going to struggle to generate much of a profit.
And out of the they are going to need to fund maintenance, upgrades, management, etc...?
Of course they can always raise the rates... but it there's some real question in my mind about the long term health of that model.
Of course by that time hopefully they'll have figured out what gas station owners did long ago... the money isn't to be made at the pump, it's selling Slurpee's inside the mini-mart. This seems even more of a no-brainer given the length of a charge session.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I suppose this is more in the way of conspiracy nonsense, but would a 350 kW to car installation let VW inflate O&M charges on the accounting sheet that are not actually spent in practice ?
And how many of those chargers are 350kW? I suspect that that limits the length of the charging cable some.
The ABB chargers can split power but EA seems to have chosen not to take advantage of that. They seem to want a user experience model where each space gets full charging without splitting. I’m not sure about power splitting with the other 3 charger makers that EA is using.
Electrify America has updated their “coming soon” list of locations. It now shows 18 locations coming soon that are mostly in the South and Midwest.
There are no California sites listed yet but there are now 3 in Oregon and a recent photo on PlugShare shows that one of them in eastern Oregon which had been on the earlier version of the coming soon list is almost operational. The other 2 are along I-5 at Albany and Grants Pass.
So far there are 3 operational locations that are located in Chicopee, MA and Fincastle, Virginia and Gulfport, MS along with the EA HQ in Reston, Virginia which is also available for public use.
Being on the “coming soon” list appears to mean that a site is under active construction.
Unofficially, someone reported that permits have already been issued in Washington state. In California, EA plans called for permit applications to be submitted during the Q2 quarter (May-June).
There are no California sites listed yet but there are now 3 in Oregon and a recent photo on PlugShare shows that one of them in eastern Oregon which had been on the earlier version of the coming soon list is almost operational. The other 2 are along I-5 at Albany and Grants Pass.
So far there are 3 operational locations that are located in Chicopee, MA and Fincastle, Virginia and Gulfport, MS along with the EA HQ in Reston, Virginia which is also available for public use.
Being on the “coming soon” list appears to mean that a site is under active construction.
Unofficially, someone reported that permits have already been issued in Washington state. In California, EA plans called for permit applications to be submitted during the Q2 quarter (May-June).
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