VW ID.3

[Valore]

That's probably less than they were hoping for. I really hope they succeed with this car. I'm concerned that a failure to meet expectations will the a setback for BEVs in general. Other carmakers are closely watching how VW's expensive bet works out for them.

I am quite sure that they will sell every single one of those 30,000 1st Edition vehicles you can reserve now.

But the car has not been revealed yet, it will be presented at Frankfurt Autoshow later this year.
Also, neither the largest nor the smallest battery are available for reservation. Both of which probably generate the most interest.

 

[Scott7]

It's just a refundable reservation, not an order. When Tesla did it with the Model 3, nobody had seen anything of the car, not even in camouflage.

Nope. Tesla opened the reservations the same day they brought the production car out on stage. I reserved mine that day. It was possible to reserve one a few hours before the reveal at best, and we are now well past a few hours since the ID.3 reservations opened so we're now beyond even that asterisk.

Also there's news that those now trying to cancel their Audi E-Tron are being hit with a ~5% (on the price of that $80k car!) cancellation fees, so I'd be wary of reserving anything from VW Group without reading all the fine print.

 

[srs5694]

Small pack charging peaks at 100kW and will be able to add 260km in 30 mins, that's likely 0 to 80% and means 140+ EPA miles in 30 mins, in line with the Bolt. Big pack should peak at 125kW, no details on mid range pack.

In the real world, the Bolt tops out at just above 50kW charging (52kW? 55kW? Something like that), even on 100kW+ CCS chargers. If the VW ID.3 really tops out at 100-125kW, then that's similar to the Model 3 prior to the 150kW update to Tesla's Superchargers and Supercharger v3. Given that there's a reducing return on faster charge rates on a road trip beyond what you need to get fully charged in the time you need to eat, use the bathroom, etc., I'd say that a real-world charge rate of 100-125kW is closer to Tesla Model 3 territory than to Chevy Bolt territory. Of course, whether the ID.3 actually reaches that charge rate is an open question. This could be one of those situations where it's 100-125kW on paper, but in practice it gets much less than that.

 

[Eno Deb]

Nope. Tesla opened the reservations the same day they brought the production car out on stage. I reserved mine that day.

So did I. I clearly remember putting in my reservation without ever having seen the car. Must have been an hallucination. And BTW, what they showed later that day was not the production car but a prototype with a mockup interior and slightly different exterior (different nose, wheels that were never sold).

Also there's news that those now trying to cancel their Audi E-Tron are being hit with a ~5% (on the price of that $80k car!) cancellation fees, so I'd be wary of reserving anything from VW Group without reading all the fine print.

Right. A claim by a single guy in Norway obviously means that VW's reservation system is all a big fraud.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Can we maybe dispense with the fanboy froth and agree that VW's commitment to building BEV's is great for the industry in general, and especially the environment.

This isn't a zero-sum game, where only one company can be successful in this space - it's really frustrating to read through schoolboy posts about how Tesla is so much better than whoever just got mentioned.

 

[Scott7]

So did I. I clearly remember putting in my reservation without ever having seen the car. Must have been an hallucination.

Yes, thanks for selectively quoting my post to make it appear as if you are correct. BYE BYE!

 

[willow_hiller]

Is it a bad idea to put a hard cap on the launch edition reservations? I know VW is probably just trying to be practical with how many they can produce, but I can't help but wonder how many reservation holders will cancel, and how many reservations will be scalped. I wonder if they have a wait-list set up for when they exceed 30,000.

 

[Valore]

In the real world, the Bolt tops out at just above 50kW charging (52kW? 55kW? Something like that), even on 100kW+ CCS chargers. If the VW ID.3 really tops out at 100-125kW, then that's similar to the Model 3 prior to the 150kW update to Tesla's Superchargers and Supercharger v3.

If the ID.3 has a similar charge curve as the Audi E-Tron, then I would really prefer this to the short peak of a Tesla.
The Audi does 150kW until 80%, 50kW all the way to 100% which is pretty good.

 

[Eno Deb]

Is it a bad idea to put a hard cap on the launch edition reservations? I know VW is probably just trying to be practical with how many they can produce, but I can't help but wonder how many reservation holders will cancel, and how many reservations will be scalped. I wonder if they have a wait-list set up for when they exceed 30,000.

According to their FAQ the reservations are not transferable, so scalping should not be a problem. Also, they will supposedly open the regular order book in September after IAA.

 

[SR22pilot]

I'll take a wait and see attitude before making fine distinctions on this car. However, it appears to be real and to have meaningful specs. It is nice to see VW doing this. The car looks decent. The range also looks decent. I'll compare this to the 204 e-Tron range which immediately made it a non-starter for me considering its price point.

As someone else mentioned, let's celebrate the expansion of the EV market. I see cars like this not as Tesla killers but as ICE killers.

 

[willow_hiller]

Evidently they've already made 200 pre-production vehicles as well: Jürgen Stackmann on Twitter

I'm guessing those are for showrooms?

 

[Eno Deb]

As someone else mentioned, let's celebrate the expansion of the EV market. I see cars like this not as Tesla killers but as ICE killers.

Indeed. The real competition of this car is the new Golf that's coming out next year.

 

[mtndrew1]

I think this could be quite a compelling car if done right. A relatively basic RWD car built from the beginning as an EV that conveniently sidesteps potential VW diesel guilt at a reasonable price should find plenty of buyers.

 

[srs5694]

Evidently they've already made 200 pre-production vehicles as well: Jürgen Stackmann on Twitter

I'm guessing those are for showrooms?

My understanding, which I admit is limited, is that pre-production cars are generally used as press loaners. In fact, VW recently got into trouble for selling many such cars. In the US, they're supposed to be returned to the country of origin or destroyed.

 

[Pudgie Child]

Maybe I'm missing something, but a 58 kWh ID.3 would have an EPA range of roughly 231 miles, which is less than both the Chevy Bolt and the Hyundai Kona EV. And VW is selling the first 30,000 units for 40,000 euros each, which is $45,000.

I'm feeling less optimistic about the ID Crozz.

 

[willow_hiller]

Some new quotes from Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess published on Teslarati today:

“I hope that Tesla survives because it is, of course, an incentive and an impulse for us,” he said. He later added that while Tesla has established a lead in the electric vehicle market, this headstart was “certainly not unassailable.”

“We are big, we are global, and we also have advantages in scaling, starting up factories, and rolling out the business. This will be our chance in the next few years. We will win,” Diess said.

Friendly competition? Or something more serious?

Source here: Tesla is a pioneer that drives Volkswagen's EV initiatives, says CEO Herbert Diess

 

[Eno Deb]

“We are big, we are global, and we also have advantages in scaling, starting up factories, and rolling out the business. This will be our chance in the next few years. We will win,” Diess said.

Friendly competition? Or something more serious?

Source here: Tesla is a pioneer that drives Volkswagen's EV initiatives, says CEO Herbert Diess

If you understand German, you can listen to the original yourself:

He's asked about Tesla starting around minute 17:00. Essentially he acknowledges that it is a race between VW catching up on technology leadership and Tesla catching up on production capabilities and scale, and says they will win. He said that with a little laughter, so I doubt there are any sinister machinations behind it.

 

[Valore]

 

[willow_hiller]

I wonder why VW is keeping the ID3 in camo for so long. They're already taking reservations, surely they can let the public see it without camo.

 

[sixela]

If the ID.3 has a similar charge curve as the Audi E-Tron, then I would really prefer this to the short peak of a Tesla.
The Audi does 150kW until 80%, 50kW all the way to 100% which is pretty good.

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Except 100% is really 80%, which explains most of the difference. I'd really hate it if VW decide to treat the drivers like children just like on an E-tron, by not allowing them to charge slowly at home but to 100% on the odd occasion when you're planning a trip. Especially on smaller batteries, that's often one more stop at a charger.

I expect that when the firmware that supports Supercharger v3 arrives, the Model 3 will handily beat an E-tron on energy (which is the integral of power) transferred to battery vs. time even on a FastNed charger, in all scenarios (i.e. energy added and SoC at start of charge).

Because I don't care whether the charging curve is flat, really, but that my time to get X energy in the battery is minimized. Wel, I *do* care about battery longevity too, but there Tesla is a known quantity and Audi is not (which probably explains the very conservative charging strategy).

And that's talking in kW, not even in range, where the e-tron's dismal efficiency compared to a Model 3 or S shows (but then, luckily, the ID.3 should be more efficient).

Mind you, I'm not saying that the charging curve of an E-tron is bad. No, it's good, but it's not really an advantage unless you apply a lot of marketroid sauce.