VW ID.3

[Eno Deb]

Germany is a single country in Europe. Sales there do not support your incorrect statement that "The Model 3 isn't doing all that well in Europe."

Your own article says that the quoted sales numbers in the UK are due to pent-up demand, since the right-hand drive version became available only recently. Let's see what the numbers are in a few months. I bet we'll see the same pattern as in the other European countries.

The Model 3 is simply too expensive to become a true mass market car in Europe (starting price for the SR+ around 45,000 Euros before incentives), and has a few issues such as service and quality problems.

 

[Valore]

Just got an email from VW in Switzerland on my ID.3 pre order. They have released prices and features for the first edition models. The price of the well equipped first edition ID.3 (CHF 36,000) is about 20% below the base model price of a Tesla model 3 (Standard Range Plus, 409km WLPT range, CHF 44,990) over here...

Plus it comes with free charging across Europe for the first year. 58kw battery and 420 km WLTP range and some other free add ons...

 

[Sean Wagner]

Interesting. The VW Switzerland website says "Die Sonderedition ID.3 1ST kostet circa CHF 54'000.-".
See Der ID.3 | Modelle | Volkswagen Schweiz

5. Provisorischer Preis für die Variante mit 58 kWh netto Batteriekapazität

I'd think that the latest email should take precedence, but the discrepancy with published values is huge.

 

[Lozza12]

Just got an email from VW in Switzerland on my ID.3 pre order. They have released prices and features for the first edition models. The price of the well equipped first edition ID.3 (CHF 36,000) is about 20% below the base model price of a Tesla model 3 (Standard Range Plus, 409km WLPT range, CHF 44,990) over here...

Plus it comes with free charging across Europe for the first year. 58kw battery and 420 km WLTP range and some other free add ons...

Not bad for a budget car.

 

[PatrickCH4313]

Interesting. The VW Switzerland website says "Die Sonderedition ID.3 1ST kostet circa CHF 54'000.-".
See Der ID.3 | Modelle | Volkswagen Schweiz

5. Provisorischer Preis für die Variante mit 58 kWh netto Batteriekapazität

I'd think that the latest email should take precedence, but the discrepancy with published values is huge.

This is correct, for Switzerland, they just kept the ID.3 1st Edition Max for CH 54'000.-
So, it is about CHF 10'000.- more than the Tesla Model 3 SR Plus ! I just cancelled my reservation for the ID.3 1st Edition.

 

[PatrickCH4313]

Just got an email from VW in Switzerland on my ID.3 pre order. They have released prices and features for the first edition models. The price of the well equipped first edition ID.3 (CHF 36,000) is about 20% below the base model price of a Tesla model 3 (Standard Range Plus, 409km WLPT range, CHF 44,990) over here...

Plus it comes with free charging across Europe for the first year. 58kw battery and 420 km WLTP range and some other free add ons...

The mail from VW Switzerland is talking about a price of "ca. CHF 54'000.-" for the ID.3 1st Edition MAX (pre-order) and this price is showed on the VW Switzerland site.

 

[mikevbf]

Looks like VW is beginning their transition in a real way:
Production Of Volkswagen ID.3 Begins In Zwickau On November 4, 2019 | CleanTechnica

 

[andrewFW]

I like the look of this car. Shame it won't be coming to the US. We need more competition. More EVs -> more chargers -> even more EVs. Let it spread. =D

 

[mspohr]

Tesla Model 3 'rival' Volkswagen ID.3 is turning into a cautionary tale

But the Volkswagen ID.3 ramp has been rife with issues. While the vehicles can be produced efficiently using the company’s extensive experience in car manufacturing, the ID.3’s software has proven troublesome. Simply put, the software of the vehicle does not work as it should, and VW experts have pointed the finger at the company’s haste in rolling out the all-electric car for production. Volkswagen experts have noted that the ID.3’s underlying architecture was developed too hastily, as the car’s system parts often don’t understand each other, resulting in errors.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Good article on VW having significant software issues on the ID, which might delay production:
https://www.electrive.com/2020/02/25/so ... -3-launch/

It looks like VW are being hit with a fundamental systems architecture problem, in that they have many smart and semi-smart components from third-party parts suppliers which have to be interacted with and controlled.
Its a poor architectural design, since most bug resolutions need software teams in different companies and locations to first agree ownership of the problem, and then ensure that any fix doesn't affect other modules from other companies.

Basically a nightmare situation, compounded by having senior and middle management unaware of proper software development methods and processes, and unaware of modern methods of project management. A very, very different situation from Tesla's systems architechure and their senior management's skill set.

For example: from the official statements about still releasing by the summer, it appears they are using waterfall-type project management techniques and that the senior management absolutely don't get that you can't ship a software-based product before the software is ready, no matter how much you scream and yell in the project milestone meetings.

 

[Eno Deb]

For example: from the official statements about still releasing by the summer, it appears they are using waterfall-type project management techniques and that the senior management absolutely don't get that you can't ship a software-based product before the software is ready, no matter how much you scream and yell in the project milestone meetings.

Looking at things like Smart Summon or NoA, I'd say Tesla proves the opposite.

 

[ralph142]

Looking at things like Smart Summon or NoA, I'd say Tesla proves the opposite.

still kind of makes a difference that there are model threes actually driving around, once the IDs are we can (potentially) be smug about them.

 

[Eno Deb]

still kind of makes a difference that there are model threes actually driving around, once the IDs are we can (potentially) be smug about them.

The smugness seems to be the other way around. As if Tesla never had delays or software bugs.

It is true that the traditional car makers are still learning when it comes to the increasing role of software in today's cars. But they'll get there, just like Tesla is improving on other fronts such as large scale manufacturing.

 

[Valore]

Looks much better than I thought it would. I like that black/white two tone trim.

 

[willow_hiller]

Looks much better than I thought it would.

To me it looks a little bit like a cross between a VW Golf and a Nissan Leaf:

 

[Eno Deb]

The first reviews of the production version in the German press are pretty good. Supposedly it drives very nicely and has more legroom in the rear seats than a VW Passat. But the interior materials are apparently somewhat cheaper than people are used to from VW. Some of the software features like the fancy HUD are not ready in the first production cars. Ironically the early owners will have to visit a service center one more time to retrofit the OTA update capability.

I really hope they have success with this car. If this EV doesn't sell well in Europe, I don't know what will.

 

[ralph142]

Not bad, interesting golf ball dimples on the front bumper

 

[dgpcolorado]

Not bad, interesting golf ball dimples on the front bumper

Aka "bug catchers," I sure wouldn't want to have to clean the bugs out of those dimples! It is already a nuisance on my Model S.

 

[Just a Reader]

Aka "bug catchers," ...

I really wish they were. The complete lack of squashed bugs even in Spring and Summer is getting seriously frightening by now. There hardly seems to be anything left that might get squashed.
Back in the bad 1970s and 1980s windscreens were covered with dead insects, now they are clear even after extensive drives.

 

[mspohr]

Interesting perspective on German auto industry from an Audi manager:
Ex Leiter F&E Audi: “Wir haben geschlafen (…) es wird blutig!” | Elektroauto-News.net
(use Google translate if needed)

Tesla changed the previous rules of the automotive business with a tool called software.
In order to counter the challenger, the established auto industry activated what it does best, namely its supplier base. They asked their thousands of suppliers if they could develop something comparable, and the suppliers convincingly confirmed: "Yes, we can" without knowing exactly what they had just undertaken to do.

10 years later, the largest and best R&D departments in the automotive industry unveil vehicles that are nowhere near Tesla's 2012 Model S. Peter Mertens, former R&D boss and Audi board member in June 2020:

Software determines success or failure more than ever
Since their future depends on the software, be it in the product, customer benefit or company profits, the software must therefore also occupy one of the most powerful positions in the company. The IT representative on the VW board was finally appointed in 2019, but he is in a weak position without the necessary power and influence to make critical decisions. How can a company be successful if what it will use to win its main profits has no real say in the decision-making body?

The spin-off of the software planned by VW into its own legal AG in order to become an Android of the automotive industry with its own VW.OS, which also offers its own operating system for other car manufacturers, can be a step in the right direction but also the wrong one. Instead of being designed like a start-up that is not based on previous structures, first of all to develop a good stable solution for the ID.X model series without having built up any decisive software competence, it assumed that you could offer solutions for the entire industry . If VW is not known for one or better known negatively then it is their software.

Managers who haven't written a single set of software code in their entire life and can't even name the common software languages by name decide on the vehicle software that determines the largest share of profits. 80-90% margin is not uncommon in the software industry, but the auto industry is only used to a few percent. Managers who do not even know the basic current software languages, nor what they mean for success or what is good or bad code, make decisions whose scope they do not have an overview of.