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WA State's Governor is proposing an extension for EV Sales Tax exemption. Act Now!

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by v12 to 12v, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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    There is a push back regarding Governor's proposal.

    Many in administrative positions and the legislature do not comprehend the potential cost savings for the state, cities, counties, towns and municipalities that would be created by a substantial amount of BEVs on the road. There has been too much focus on air emissions. The savings in highway maintenance, environmental monitoring and surface water management can be huge for our state. Storm drain maintenance, asphalt deterioration, surface water runoff pollutant management, and petroleum infrastructure monitoring, management and remediation could be impacted significantly. I see dead fingerling salmon at storm drain outfalls routinely.

    Here is an article I found with some key names in it. Lake News: Gov. Inslee urges extension of sales tax break for electric cars
     
  2. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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    That looks like a smart move to me for them to extend the sales tax exemption. Washington State EVers should contact their representatives about it.
     
  3. Edgewood Dome

    Edgewood Dome Member

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    Just sent an email to my two reps. Both are Republicans, so I hope they believe in anti-tax for us non-Billionaires.
     
  4. gglockner

    gglockner Member

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    #4 gglockner, Dec 8, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
    These two seem like a stretch. In fact, the reason why EVs pay an extra $100 in registration fees is that they use the roads but don't pay motor vehicle taxes via gasoline or diesel taxes.
     
  5. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    Quick Google search suggests it isn't imaginary:
    "Chemical / petroleum exposure - the introduction of chemicals to asphalt, including gas and oil, can soften the asphalt and cause it to break down more rapidly."

    The Deterioration of Asphalt Pavement and its Causes

    by Brett Neal, Paveman Pro
     
  6. gglockner

    gglockner Member

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    Sorry, but that source is far from authoritative.

    Moreover, there is a possible argument where EVs can cause more wear on pavement since they are typically heavier than ICE equivalents.

    Anyway, returning to the original post, there are plenty of great arguments to favor EVs: energy independence and lower pollution. Those benefits are indisputable.
     
  7. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    I believe (but cite no evidence) that commercial vehicles cause the greatest long-term wear to roadways. Whether an ICE or BEV is 4000 or 5000 lb. is irrelevant compared to the fleets of 18K lb semi trucks that travel the highways. Witness the severe rutting of I90W. My 90's Chevy S10 weighs 1,000 lbs. more than the Model S.
     
  8. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I'm pretty sure that's accurate. The trucking lobby is more powerful than he personal transportation lobby so taxes don't reflect the true damage to the roads.
     
  9. dandelot

    dandelot Member

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    #9 dandelot, Dec 8, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
    road wear

    The Straight Dope: Why can't they make highways last forever?
    I have no idea if this source is accurate, but here is the crucial paragraph:


    "Trucks are particularly problematic. The rule of thumb among highway engineers is that road deterioration is roughly proportional to vehicle axle weight to the fourth power. In other words, doubling the weight on an axle increases the wear and tear on the roads by 2[SUP]4[/SUP], or 16 times. Roads are usually designed assuming that a single axle on a big truck carries a maximum of 18,000 pounds. Compared to a typical car carrying 2,000 pounds per axle, a fully loaded truck stresses the road surface 6,561 times as much. Minor overloading can make a big difference. Exceeding the maximum load by just 10 percent increases road stress by 46 percent — that's why you see all those weigh stations on highways. So the next job on your list, Dan, is dealing with the damn trucks."

    Which does not explain why, when one is on a road that goes from California to Nevada, that
    the road surface is instantly and obviously better in Nevada. Same cars, same trucks.
    Much better road in Nevada.
     
  10. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    Unless you're also dealing with snow and ice. Then the constant ploughing does more damage to the roads than any semi. Add to that the salt and gravel, freeze and thaw cycles, and certain highways up here look like tanks drove over them come spring.

    The extension of WA EV rebate will good for brining up cheap used Leafs into BC. We only pay a 6.1% duty on them and that's still far cheaper than what they sell for used up here. The extension will cause more people to upgrade, putting more used ones on the market. My Leaf is from WA and we can even get Carwings to work in Canada on US born Leafs.
     
  11. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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    There is a reason that gas stations have their filling areas on concrete pads. Gas and oil dissolves asphalt. Take a look at 7-11 parking spot and it is quite evident.

    I'm not saying it is the greatest factor in actual road maintenance either. I'm pointing out all the storm drain monitoring and maintenance is a big part of roadway maintenance. They are essentially sediment basins and oil/water separators and need very routine maintenance and montitoring to keep oils, greases and other pollutants out of our waterways. In addition to flood control, stormwater retention ponds function in a similar fashion as a catch basin does.
     
  12. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    Yup. I live in NYS for 30 years. Chains, studded tires, snow plow, frost heaves, road salt. There is a reason the roads are always under construction in snow country. But in WA that is not the primary factor.
     
  13. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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  14. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Yeah, Inslee's been asking for it, but it's the legislators that have to change the law to extend the waiver. Plug In America, Seattle EV Association and several other groups are talking to legislators about it. Jeff Finn of SEVA in particular has some nice numbers showing the financial benefits to the state of getting residents to buy local electricity instead of imported petroleum. The BEV sales tax waiver has very clearly worked here.

    But it's tough going. The financial benefits are years off, but education needs more funding this year. A lot of legislators seem to be looking short-term instead of long-term - their job would get easier if they would continue to encourage EVs, as they would have more revenue.

    Magendanz (House, R; he drives an i3) and Mullet (Senate, D; he drives a Roadster) formed an EV caucus and I believe they will be proposing an extension, but I don't know any details.
     
  15. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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  16. BerTX

    BerTX Member

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    Sheesh, these are all great ideas. If you read these articles, don't read the comments!!! Very depressing.

    Not that familiar with how the legislature works, but maybe it's like any other negotiation -- ask for a whole bunch of pie-in-the-sky stuff so that a compromise can be struck that gives you all of what you actually wanted?

    Did notice that there is a $60,000 limit on the proposed sales/use tax exemption. Still, better than nothing...
     
  17. morbot

    morbot Member

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    I'm all for incentives to encourage people to buy EVs... and I'll take any freebies they give us :D but some of this is a bit odd.

    - The tax break is nice... but honestly any of us buying a Tesla can afford to pay the taxes (i may have cut a few features from my build though hehe).
    - Ferry rides is odd. Ferry system already has enough trouble making revenue. An EV takes just as much space as a regular car, and the weight requires the ferry to burn fuel like a regular car... and the savings is minimal for majority of people.
    - HOT/HOV lane access... bring it on! I want the fast lane :D
     
  18. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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    Maybe they hope that incentivizing more EVs with free ferry rides will bring down the price of fuel for their ferries. That is one of their biggest expenses.

    More likely, they have hopes for reduced costs related to clean up from oils, overflowed radiators and other leaks and more EVs will reduce the cost of bilge water disposal and reduce the frequency of necessary monitoring, sampling and maintenance. They may be having trouble meeting discharge or disposal limits with their current treatment methods. More EVs could change the status of their waste and permit requirements and reduce he risk of a violation.
     
  19. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    this is one of my biggest pet peeves! Not everyone that buys/owns a tesla would agree with this statement. Sorry but my tesla was a stretch for me and I would never say that anyone could afford to pay $10,000 in taxes! That's more than a couple options that's the difference between a 60 and an 85 or what used to be P85!

    If id have had to pay the $10,000 in taxes I would have been forced into a 60.

    Rant over
     
  20. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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    The Sales Tax exemption made a huge difference for us. It pushed us into the buyer category. No cap would be better, but I can live with that limit.
    Mostly because my greatest concern was that the exemptions would not be available at all for Model 3 buyers with the way the law was scheduled to end.
     

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