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WA superchargers 2017

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by hpartsch, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    Anyone have any idea where the Kitsap Peninsula charger will be at?

    I think a great location would be at the main and vine shopping plaza. This higher end grocery store/plaza would be a good place. Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Right now Tesla is embroiled in a bit of a scandal in Aberdeen. The mayor didn't reveal he owned Tesla stock when he negotiated the supercharger deal and the city council now wants to cancel the contract.

    As for new locations in 2017, somewhere on the west side of the Sound is a definite bet. Silverdale might be a good place, there are a lot of places to shop and eat around there.

    I hope they get one on the north side of the Gorge in SW Washington. I would never use it, but a super charger in Camas or Washougal would be good for people going up the Gorge on SR-14. Another supercharger between Portland and Seattle would be good too. Along the I-5 corridor they need to put superchargers about halfway between all the existing ones. The existing spacing is good for an S 60, but they are too close together for a longer range 85D or 90D. For someone going to southern OR or CA from the Seattle area, the Centralia supercharger is a bit too short and Woodburn is too far. If there was one a bit north of Vancouver, that would probably be ideal. Same thing from Portland south, Woodburn is way too short, Springfield is a bit short, but Grants Pass is too far. Roseburg would be ideal (in warmer weather, you probably need more stops this time of year) for going south from Portland.

    They are doing this in some parts of California so it will probably happen in the Northwest soon.

    The Northwest appears to be getting a bit more attention from Tesla. I was talking to a tech at the Manteca, CA supercharger in october and he said that they were moving him to Vancouver, WA in a few weeks to support all the NW superchargers. Up to that point all the NW superchargers were serviced out of Freemont, CA.
     
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  3. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    I don' think there will be one, looking at the 2017 map. Remember that the marks on the map "float" to the north of the actual location. The one you are looking at will likely be in Olympia. The new chargers in the area will likely be in Forks, Sequim, and Olympia.
     
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  4. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    #4 hpartsch, Jan 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
    Oh bummer. Odd he didn't mention that when negotiating.. I hope that doesn't negatively affect the rest of the state. I agree those locations would also be a good. I think Wa is pretty sparsely covered when compared to other states... It's odd because I would imagine a good bit of Teslas are sold here.

    In regards to them moving personnel up there, that is great news! I hope we get a nice uptick in superchargers. I live in Tacoma and the charging is pretty limited and slow -- I emailed the city and it doesn't seem like they have any plans to increase the current charging infrastructure. Eventually I may move to Gig Harbor -- and there isn't much there either. Gig Harbor's email response was more positive in regards to adding chargers, but only time will tell. A lot of the apartments/condos in these areas are older don't have charging available yet :(.
     
  5. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    A couple of articles on the situation in Aberdeen
    Mayor tied to Tesla Supercharger site questioned over 'conflict of interest'
    Aberdeen Mayor will nullify Tesla Supercharger contract over failure to disclose stock holding

    Supercharging is intended for use when driving between cities. If you can't charge at home, the idea is you have some other way of charging such as a lower speed commercial charger. Washington has a large number of ChaDEMO and other lower speed chargers compared to other states. At the moment there are few Tesla owners without access to some kind of charging at home. Those who live in condos tend to live in upscale ones where they can get some kind of charger installed in the parking garage. The people who live in apartment complexes without charging usually don't have the money to afford a Tesla.

    Washington's sales tax holiday on EVs did encourage EV ownership and early on Washington was the #3 state in Tesla ownership, but now that Tesla's are taxed to the full in WA, I think sales have declined. A lot are sold in Oregon though. The day I picked up my car in Portland they had two truck loads of new cars delivered and the delivery specialist said they get several truckloads a week.

    Tesla put a few superchargers in cities in California, but that's rare. Most of the superchargers are on major highways between larger cities. The nearest supercharger to Portland is in Sandy and is really only useful if you're going up Mt Hood. It isn't really convenient if you're traveling on I-84 up the Gorge or coming into Portland from the east. Woodburn is south of the city far enough I doubt many people in Portland go out of their way to use it if they aren't traveling down the Willamette Valley.

    Tesla has been encouraging businesses and hotels to put in destination chargers. They don't want the headache of maintaining low speed chargers in cities, but they could introduce a lower tier supercharger that is for use in cities and charges at a much lower rate, but at a cost per KWh. They have the infrastructure for charging people for supercharging built in now, so this could be price structured to pay for itself.
     
  6. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    In my opinion, the concept of "Superchargers just for trips" is rapidly going by the wayside. They are now able to get payment for charging, so now city dwellers who can't charge at home can have a quick place to charge. The 2017 map has quite a few new Superchargers projected for inside cities. There is even one for Honolulu, where EVERY trip is local.

    I know, the official policy is Superchargers are for travel, but as cars begin to be sold without unlimited Supercharging, I think that policy will change.
     
  7. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    I think it makes sense with the new policy. Tesla makes the car, services it (when needed ;)) and can even fuel it. Obviously charging at home is the most convenient; however, for those (which their are lots) that live in condos/apartments -- building charging infrastructure within the city would expand the market greatly. Especially with the model 3 coming out and its price point. Who else is going to allow for automatically charging with fully autonomous cars. It will take the competition quite a while to catch on.
     
  8. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    I suspect that free charging was eliminated to discourage local charging. Elon and JB have said they are confused and dismayed at the number of people that insist on wasting time at a SC instead of charging at home...
     
  9. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    Yeah I agree, stopping at the supercharger and paying for it/grabbing a cup of coffee/grocery shopping etc -- will be the norm for apartment dwellers/condo owners. That is if Tesla enables such, which I hope they do. There are millions of people who want a tesla and don't have any charging available for use -- Tesla can easily solve that problem with the pay per use policy. A fair price will encourage more people to use it and hopefully more infrastructure will be built.
     
  10. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    L3 charging for people without charging at home/work is a bandaid... not a solution. We need to work to expand more L2 options. L3 is >10x more expensive than L2 and it puts A LOT of stress on the grid, a 8 bay Supercharger at a hotel can draw more power than the hotel. For daily use it's simply not sustainable at scale.
     
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  11. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    True, you are right, destination chargers would be also very acceptable in my opinion and much less costly. I read a really cool article comparing the costco revenue model to the new Tesla supercharger model... I wish I could find it but can't -- it really was a good read.
     
  12. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    #12 nwdiver, Jan 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
    I would be very surprised if the SC network becomes a profit center for Tesla. The rates they're planning to charge are at or slightly below the cost of electricity... and certainly don't include the capital cost of the chargers which is ~$25k per bay. They built the network out of necessity to sell cars. IMO if there wasn't such an issue with irrational behavior the SCs would probably remain free. The ~5% ruined it for the rest of us :(

    Chargepoints CEO had a great presentation on the difficulty of making a profit from public charging... gas stations don't make $$$ selling gas... they make $$$ off the $4 monster you buy when you go there to get gas. Selling fuel is a terrible business model. Selling electrons is taking a terrible business model and making it worse.



    IMO the fact that you get charged more for NOT using the SC (idle fee) than you do for charging is a strong indicator that Tesla just wants to encourage more efficient use of the network.
     
  13. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    Okay, so there must be some other reason that they are now putting Superchargers in cities. That seems counter-intuitive, to be discouraging local charging by putting chargers in cities. Where is a person using a Supercharger in Honolulu traveling to, exactly? The island of O'ahu is only 50 miles across at it's widest point.
     
  14. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    I found it! Costco’s business strategy and Tesla’s Supercharger network
    Let me know what your thoughts are.

    Interesting video. Thanks for sharing it. Though I don't agree with statements that 20 min recharge versus 4 hours is the to the customer. Tesla current supercharger use "problem" exemplifies this. I think chargepoint is probably figuring this out now --- since they are seeing the demand for much quicker charging. Chargepoint CEO Pasquale Romano shows off 400kW charging station, answers questions about Tesla adapter

    I wish my target had a charger!

    I've gone to so many new (to me) places that have had chargers - just because they have chargers.
     
  15. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    After a few long trips in WA & OR -- I've come to realize I love the superchargers. However, still think WA needs quite a few more. Right now Steven's pass ski resort has 2 level 2 chargers --- this is currently not cutting it, especially for drivers from Tacoma or Olympia. The chargers were filled by 0830 -- and I watched 2 other Teslas drive scout out the site hoping to charge while I was putting on my gear.

    I think a supercharger is needed in between both Steven and Snoqualmie pass.

    Additionally, from Tacoma -- there is no way for me to get to White Pass ski resort and actually have confidence I'll be able to charge there & make it home. I contacted a few locations on plugshare and got responses that made me change my weekend plans. For example, "the RV sites are snowed over and we might decide to plow them - call back the day you want to charge".
     
  16. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Tesla did put in a supercharger on the road to Mt Hood. It really is out of the way for anyone else. They might put in superchargers on routes to other major ski areas.
     
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  17. goneskiian

    goneskiian Active Member

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    I'm definitely looking forward to WA getting more Superchargers. I could have really used one in Sequim this weekend. I was out there for a bike race on Saturday and wanted to turn around and get to Ellensburg that night to attend another event in Ephrata the next day. I was planning to stop at home but would have had to hang out for a couple hours to get enough charge to get to Ellensburg (only stopped long enough for a shower and bike change, about 45 min or so). Fortunately a buddy bailed me out and gave me a ride to Sequim. We burned a bunch of diesel in his Q7 to do so though. Bleh.

    Anyway, I was scouting Sequim locations and it looks like there are a couple good ones. At one end of town is a Black Bear Diner and a Holiday Inn Express that share a parking lot. At the other end of town is a Starbucks in huge parking lot shared with a Home Depot, Petco, Ross, and Costco. There are a Taco Time, Jack in the Box, Teriaki, and IHOP all within walking distance too depending on where in the parking lot they'd put the Superchargers. I looked for any signs of construction at both locations but didn't see anything.

    Good to know those chargers at Stevens get used! I'd be bummed to find them full, though I'm sure I could make it up and back easily enough.

    I've also thought about making the trip to Crystal but didn't (for various reasons not necessarily related to using one of their RV spots). I haven't asked them about using an RV spot but thought it might be OK during the week. I know they're usually pretty full on the weekends.

    It would also be nice to "fill in the gaps" a bit too so when the weather is conducive to skipping the current locations it would be possible.
     
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  18. hpartsch

    hpartsch Member

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    Depending on your charger configuration -- this charger would get your around 45ish mph charge -- and for free! upload_2017-3-21_14-18-43.png
     

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  19. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    I expect Black Bear to be the location. There is a Supercharger at the Black Bear in Grant's Pass, OR.

    There is a nice 80A Sun Country installation at Co-Op Farm and Garden in Sequim the we have used. You could have parked there for the day.

    Edit: too slow! Thanks @hpartsch !
     
  20. goneskiian

    goneskiian Active Member

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    #20 goneskiian, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
    Thanks. Yeah, I saw those downtown Sequim EVSE's on Plugshare. I've got the 72amp charger in the X so it would have been a bit less. Also, we were parked out in a field across from the entrance to the Dungeness County Park (corner of Kitchen Dick Rd. and Lotzgesell Rd.). I found the Greenhouse Inn by the Bay bed and breakfast would have been the closest charging while I was racing...

    Greenhouse inn By The Bay - Bed & Breakfast, Bed And Breakfast Accommodations, Waterfront Lodging

    Anyway, anything less than a supercharger would have been cutting into much needed sleep that night!

    Although, I did think about hitting up the Chademo at Bellevue Nissan Eastgate on my way out of town.

    Thanks BerTX! Yeah, parking downtown wouldn't have been very convenient for us as the race staging area was a ways out of town. Besides, my buddy decided not to race at all and drove around taking pictures of the races all day. :rolleyes:;)

    I was thinking the same about the Supercharger location for Sequim. Also there are quite a few at Holiday Inn Expresses. Then I saw that huge parking lot around the Starbucks at the other end of town. Either way it will be welcome the next time we roll through Sequim!
     

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