I have noticed over the years how speeds have got lower on all my regular journeys (except two places where it’s now higher)....annoying, but if I had the power I would lower the road I live in to 30kmph...it’s 50 now and people go 70, so 30 should make them do 50....
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Wales to introduce 20mph default speed limit
- Thread starter Lord Farquad
- Start date
I agree with this.
Thankfully where I live lots of children still act like children and play outside, running around, on bikes, scooters, go carts etc and not glued and submerged in their phones.
Whilst the limit is 30 mph, residents have put up their own 20 mph stickers on lamppost and bins. Driving the road everyday, 20mph is far more appropriate in an environment like this.
However these roads can turn into wide roads that stretch a mile or so with nothing around and 20mph here would be ridiculous.
All other issues aside, this is going to catch a lot of people out purely because Wales, England and Scotland have always had a decent enough level of parity in terms of default speed limits based on some simple rules that are easy to remember (which are drilled into us during the process of learning to drive).
So it will predominantly sting visitors not locals, (which they probably know otherwise I doubt this would get pushed through otherwise) because this isn't a thing in England and the Welsh councils will make lots of money. Just like people who get trapped in the Bath ULEZ coming off the A42 by accident - predominantly visitors I would surmise.
Can they not just do this properly and apply specific speed limits to roads that need to be 20 instead of this carpet-bombing approach? If lots of "defacto-national-limit" roads with no signs get turned into 20 limits and it doubles your journey time this will be shooting oneself in the foot big time.
So it will predominantly sting visitors not locals, (which they probably know otherwise I doubt this would get pushed through otherwise) because this isn't a thing in England and the Welsh councils will make lots of money. Just like people who get trapped in the Bath ULEZ coming off the A42 by accident - predominantly visitors I would surmise.
Can they not just do this properly and apply specific speed limits to roads that need to be 20 instead of this carpet-bombing approach? If lots of "defacto-national-limit" roads with no signs get turned into 20 limits and it doubles your journey time this will be shooting oneself in the foot big time.
I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. It would be worth anyone considering replying to this thread to check out what is actually being proposed:
UK first – Welsh Senedd gives green light for 20mph legislation | GOV.WALES
Legislation to lower the default national speed limit on residential roads and busy pedestrian streets from 30mph to 20mph has been approved by the Senedd today.
You’re right adopado, I have.I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. It would be worth anyone considering replying to this thread to check out what is actually being proposed:
UK first – Welsh Senedd gives green light for 20mph legislation | GOV.WALES
Legislation to lower the default national speed limit on residential roads and busy pedestrian streets from 30mph to 20mph has been approved by the Senedd today.gov.wales
There are some poorly worded pieces out there on this it seems. The Gov. site is clearer.
Cynical me reads these reports and my first thought is which politician owns a road sign making company or owns a company that will be replacing the signs...
Afternoon all,
I realise I'm digging up an old thread but it seemed the most suitable place.
I'm in Bristol and my in laws are just over the river in Wales. I've noticed that the Tesla speed limits haven't been updated to respect the new 20mph. The result is that the car thinks the speed limit is 30mph when in fact its now 20mph. I use the cruise control a lot and have it set to 'max'. It's frustrating to have to lower it down.
Any ideas on when the car will be updated to respect the new speed limits?
I realise I'm digging up an old thread but it seemed the most suitable place.
I'm in Bristol and my in laws are just over the river in Wales. I've noticed that the Tesla speed limits haven't been updated to respect the new 20mph. The result is that the car thinks the speed limit is 30mph when in fact its now 20mph. I use the cruise control a lot and have it set to 'max'. It's frustrating to have to lower it down.
Any ideas on when the car will be updated to respect the new speed limits?
I believe that would be linked to the Navigation maps that are only updated twice a year. Current one is 2023.32 for Europe (that was early August). So next one shouldn't be before Q1 2024 realistically
The 20MPH is purported to save lives.
The ULEZ expansion in London is also said to save lives by reducing air pollution.
It occurred to me that the truth of this is a straight choice of which way do you want to die - a nice simple instant impact or a lingering death from Hypoxia.
Man maths -
At 30MPH my wife's 1.6 Fiesta in 4th gear runs at 1500 revs, 4 stroke engine, so two revs for all 4 cylinders to fire - so 750 x4 = 3000 detonations per minute
The car will labour at 20MPH in 4th gear - so third gear selected.
20MPH, 3rd Gear at 1800 revs, same calc - 900 x 4 = 3600 detonations per minute
This is an additional 600 detonations of (1600cc divided by 4) 400cc = so 24000cc of polluted air per minute and that polluted air is more concentrated in the area because the car is traveling at two thirds the speed of 30mph.
so, does anyone know which of the two choices is likely to get you first?
ps - do I have too much time on my hands?
The ULEZ expansion in London is also said to save lives by reducing air pollution.
It occurred to me that the truth of this is a straight choice of which way do you want to die - a nice simple instant impact or a lingering death from Hypoxia.
Man maths -
At 30MPH my wife's 1.6 Fiesta in 4th gear runs at 1500 revs, 4 stroke engine, so two revs for all 4 cylinders to fire - so 750 x4 = 3000 detonations per minute
The car will labour at 20MPH in 4th gear - so third gear selected.
20MPH, 3rd Gear at 1800 revs, same calc - 900 x 4 = 3600 detonations per minute
This is an additional 600 detonations of (1600cc divided by 4) 400cc = so 24000cc of polluted air per minute and that polluted air is more concentrated in the area because the car is traveling at two thirds the speed of 30mph.
so, does anyone know which of the two choices is likely to get you first?
ps - do I have too much time on my hands?
In the man maths you don’t take into account how much fuel is flowing. 3,000 little explosions or big explosions? Stats on emissions output at different speeds surely more useful data?
Voila: BBC NEWS | UK | Eco-motoring 'can reduce carbon'
Voila: BBC NEWS | UK | Eco-motoring 'can reduce carbon'
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
No
but you are going to pay more for deliveries and in TAX - reduced speed limits mean all commercial vehicles take longer to get from A-to-B, and that also impacts GDP.Around here we have a proliferation of 40 MPH "protection zones" around the 30 MPH village zones. They are not a couple of hundred yards (which I would contend is enough to alert the driver to be slowing down) and typically half a mile. I ignore them, I expect other drivers do too.
But assuming they are obeyed by delivery drivers its reducing their deliveries/day. And what purpose is the 40MPH limit coming OUT of a 30MPH serving - when there are no houses, no foot path, and only corn fields on both sides of the road.
I think Respiratory pollution is better solved by changing ICE to EV ... and I take the view that taxing ICE (e.g. ULEZ) is a good way to do that, notwithstanding that the people who will be most impacted are those on low incomes. A carbon tax, that impacted high mileage drivers / goods vehicles might be better.
Putting aside the somewhat absurd logic that Wales used to make this decision (since if you follow this logic, why not 10mph? And while you are at it, ban stairs in all homes, since they are much more dangerous), I'm not sure that modern transmissions, which tend to have more gears to get the MPG higher, will have too much trouble at 20mph. The cynic in me says Wales is only interested in the extra revenue from speeding tickets.So Wales will be implementing a blanket 20mph default limit next year. Anywhere with no speed limit signs will be a 20 zone. I’ve always found ICE cars geared in such a way that 20 was a pain to drive at, but EV makes it easier. I can see plenty of ICE drivers getting frustrated at this.
Wales becomes UK's first nation with 20mph default speed limit
Senedd members have backed Welsh Government planswww.walesonline.co.uk
Ah Seattle. Majority of your cars are autos, majority of UK cars are manual - or stick shift as you say, so gear selection determines the efficiency.
Modern cars gearing would indeed be possible, however, the UK has always had 30MPH in built up areas, so cars are optimised for this, generally 50 and max 70 MPH apply on our clearways and motorways, plus national speed limit which varies according to single road, dual carriageway and dual carriageway with a central physical separating barrier and we have differing speeds for HGV or those towing a trailer.
20MPH has sort of been with us around schools during school times in many areas, London has a lot of 20mph now too, but Wales has introduced it as the standard - which is plain stupid - but it will raise revenue just by the speed camera fines, the insurance companies raise the cost of premiums because of the points on the licence for speeding and its going to create a two tier system for traffic regulations,
Man maths:
The average life expectancy will increase by 20 mins due to the change. However every person will now spend an extra 30 mins of their life in the car driving more slowly.
Net benefit is 10 mins less useable life
I found it somewhat amusing when I was in Wales a few weeks ago that all the 20 zones were showing as traffic congestion on the map. Seems the average speed of 20 made the nav to think there was an actual problem.
I was in France over the summer and a lot of towns/villages had 20 zones, but they were restricted to short stretches by schools etc - kind of where our 20 is plenty zones are. At least that made a bit of sense.
The average life expectancy will increase by 20 mins due to the change. However every person will now spend an extra 30 mins of their life in the car driving more slowly.
Net benefit is 10 mins less useable life
I found it somewhat amusing when I was in Wales a few weeks ago that all the 20 zones were showing as traffic congestion on the map. Seems the average speed of 20 made the nav to think there was an actual problem.
I was in France over the summer and a lot of towns/villages had 20 zones, but they were restricted to short stretches by schools etc - kind of where our 20 is plenty zones are. At least that made a bit of sense.
So we've had time to absorb this new limit into our daily lives, let's see what has come of it:
1. Emissions from ICE's has gone up inside the 20 zone due to extended duration inside zone.
2. Law abiding citizens are driving at 18mph in general, so as not to break the law.
3. Bus timetables have been affected as buses can no longer achieve their ETA's at stops due to delays in getting there. Some services have been cut altogether. Aviva have informed the Senedd.
4. White van man can no longer achieve their target delivery rates due to delays. Some delivery drivers get paid according to number of deliveries/day. Some drivers have now quit the service.
5. Cyclists are now experiencing road rage due to cars inside the zones cluttering up their route.
6. Pulling out into the main stream of traffic is now much easier inside these zones.
7. More drivers will break the law.
8. The Senedd spent 4 years doing scientific research and analysing data before enshrining the new limit into law. The public were not invited to contribute to the research.
9. The online petition against this act has now reached just short of half a million people.
Petition: We want the Welsh Government to rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law
[This is 15% of the welsh population (or the equivalent of 8,000,000 english people petitioning against it, if it was to be installed on english roads)].
1. Emissions from ICE's has gone up inside the 20 zone due to extended duration inside zone.
2. Law abiding citizens are driving at 18mph in general, so as not to break the law.
3. Bus timetables have been affected as buses can no longer achieve their ETA's at stops due to delays in getting there. Some services have been cut altogether. Aviva have informed the Senedd.
4. White van man can no longer achieve their target delivery rates due to delays. Some delivery drivers get paid according to number of deliveries/day. Some drivers have now quit the service.
5. Cyclists are now experiencing road rage due to cars inside the zones cluttering up their route.
6. Pulling out into the main stream of traffic is now much easier inside these zones.
7. More drivers will break the law.
8. The Senedd spent 4 years doing scientific research and analysing data before enshrining the new limit into law. The public were not invited to contribute to the research.
9. The online petition against this act has now reached just short of half a million people.
Petition: We want the Welsh Government to rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law
[This is 15% of the welsh population (or the equivalent of 8,000,000 english people petitioning against it, if it was to be installed on english roads)].
Many years ago I went to college in North Wales - we had a wonderful time rallying, both on the roads and in the forests.
Can someone explain how this new rule applies? Is it in urban areas only? What are the limits in regular rural roads? What about on the single track roads in places like Anglesey for instance?
Can someone explain how this new rule applies? Is it in urban areas only? What are the limits in regular rural roads? What about on the single track roads in places like Anglesey for instance?
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