Wall charger and NEMA 14-50 on One 60AMP circuit

[yogi799]

Hey everyone,

I have a Wall charger on one side of the house and it works great. 6 AWG wire 60AMP breaker.

Now I want splice into the existing wire and run a branch off to another location where I need to charge occasionally (garage). I will install a NEMA 14-50 there and use a mobile charger (there is no more space in the panel or holes that can be made in the house foundation), hence running two chargers on one circuit.

I will NEVER use both at the same time since I only have one car. I also have no trailer so no accidental issues with trailer power.

Is there any problem with this plan or shall i simply plow along... I want to cut my current 6 AWG wire open, install a box on the house wall and get some massive marrettes (or whatever else can be used to connect 3 x 6 AWG) and connect three wires together: one coming out of the panel, one going to the wall charger, and one to Nema 14-50. Any issues given the above?

 

[Watts_Up]

I'm not a Licensed Electrician, but technically it is possible to tap your Wall Charger line using for example:

- two Polaris Connectors,​

- an Insulated Neutral bar,​

- a Ground bar, and​

- a 6x6x4 Connection box.​

However, this is not following the NEC code, where:

- each high current receptacle should have its own circuit breaker, and​

- the NEMA plug should have an GFCI circuit breaker,​

- and you cannot have a 60A circuit breaker to feed a NEMA 50 Amp receptacle.​

Since you don't have enough space on your main panel,
one correct way would be to use a separate sub-panel:

- the subpanel should be connected directly to the main panel.​

- the Wall Charger breaker should be moved inside the sub-panel​

- the GFCI circuit breaker for the NEMA receptacle should be installed inside this sub-panel.​

​

Basically, the subpanel would replace the 6x6x4 connection box mentioned above.​

I would strongly recommend this second option.​

​

You will need at least a 1" EMT conduit to hold the wires between the subpanel and the NEMA receptacle.​

But take advice from any electrician to get any additional recommendation,
as I might have missed something or I could had said something wrong.

Another option would be to have two Wall Chargers, using the Load Share feature:

I believe, but someone should confirm it, that you could then use the same circuit​

breaker for both wall chargers. If this is the case, you will avoid getting​

the expensive GFCI circuit breaker, a good quality NEMA receptacle and a box to hold it.​

 

[RayK]

Another option, albeit probably not to code, would be to install a transfer switch so that either the wall connector is active OR the 14-50 outlet, but never both at the same time. What would be a violation is that the 14-50 outlet would require a GFCI breaker, whereas the wall connector does not (and should not be used).

 

[Rocky_H]

Is there any problem with this plan

Yes--multiple.

First off, as was mentioned, electric code requires any circuits for EV charging to be dedicated--one single endpoint thing. So no, you can splice and split it to two different things.

Another option, albeit probably not to code, would be to install a transfer switch so that either the wall connector is active OR the 14-50 outlet, but never both at the same time.

I think this is the actual code compliant way to do this. By ensuring that only one thing can be on the circuit at a time, that does ensure it is "dedicated".

What would be a violation is that the 14-50 outlet would require a GFCI breaker, whereas the wall connector does not (and should not be used).

Yep, that is another thing. If you're doing an outlet for EV charging, it must use a GFCI breaker. They are annoyingly expensive and twitchy and have a lot of problems with nuisance tripping.

60AMP breaker

And this is your other really big problem! You are NEVER allowed to have a 50A outlet type with a breaker that is higher than that. So this can't be on a 60A circuit.

So there aren't really any good ways to do this. You could run a separate circuit out to that other location, or as @Watts_Up mentioned, another wall connector out there maybe, which is legitimately allowed to do the circuit sharing.

 

[yogi799]

OK , thanks so much for these comprehensive answers. I get everything that was said.

How does the situation change if I do not conform to the code? I am doing things safely, but true, not up to the code.

Can I execute the plan as stated in the original post from a purely physical point of view (yes, if that is a big deal, I CAN replace the 60amp breaker with a 50amp one... not a problem)?

 

[RayK]

Worst case: if your house burns down due to the circuit not being up to code, your insurance may deny your claim. Or somebody gets electrocuted because there isn't a GFCI breaker installed and you become liable.

Best case: nothing dangerous happens and you may have to correct the circuit prior to selling your house.

That's just my opinion. I'm neither a lawyer or a certified electrician.

 

[Watts_Up]

What is the total capacity of your main panel (like a 100A dual phase contract)?
You might have a main circuit breaker next to your meter, outside your home,
used in general by fireman before entering into a building.

What are your main consuption devices (like AC, heat pump, fridges)
beside the 32 A nominal (or 80% x 50A) used when charging your car?

I would opt for adding a sub-panel, this is not more costly that adding a connection box,
and would be code compliant, IMHO, unless your typical consumption
is already very close to your main panel capacity.

You could use a manual switch, but those are very expensive and don't solve the GFCI circuit braker issue.

If adding an extra high current line could overload your main panel, you could also consider a lower Amperage.
I personaly use a 30 A (or 24 Amp nominal) and I never had problem to charge my car during off peak hours.

 

[Watts_Up]

Another point, regarding the current Wall Charger,
check if the conduit has also a (not conected) Neutral wire.
If not, you can only install a NEMA 6-50 receptacle.

 

[yogi799]

It's a 200 AMP service and yes, I already installed Wall charger and capped off the white wire. Yes, I will go ahead and install NEMA 6-50 in the garage just so I can use less wires (3 instead of 4) and i will cut into the existing 6 AWG wire on the house wall that currently goes into Tesla wall charger. I will use a plastic 6x6x3 box and connect the 3 wires together for each group. Hope that works. This is sorta temporary (NEMA 6-50) as ultimately another tesla wall charger could go into the garage to replace the 6-50.

 

[Watts_Up]

It's a 200 AMP service and yes, I already installed Wall charger and capped off the white wire. Yes, I will go ahead and install NEMA 6-50 in the garage just so I can use less wires (3 instead of 4) and i will cut into the existing 6 AWG wire on the house wall that currently goes into Tesla wall charger. I will use a plastic 6x6x3 box and connect the 3 wires together for each group. Hope that works. This is sorta temporary (NEMA 6-50) as ultimately another tesla wall charger could go into the garage to replace the 6-50.

So, are you still using the 60A not GFCI circuit breaker for the NEMA 6-50?

How long are the wires? So, how will you save by not having a Neutral?
Because, since you are adding a new conduit, why not also adding
a 120V plug to have a socket to plug some utility tolls at this new location.

 

[brkaus]

Even an additional wall charger is supposed to be on it’s on breaker now. It can still share power to keep from overloading the main, but should each be on own breaker.

 

[Watts_Up]

Even an additional wall charger is supposed to be on it’s on breaker now. It can still share power to keep from overloading the main, but should each be on own breaker.

Can you provide the source of what you mentioned?
Is it part of the Wall Charger documentation?

I think it is safer to have separate circuit breakers,
but I don't see the point to use Load Sharing to avoid overloading the main breaker.
It could be simpler to use the Tesla scheduler to have a separate starting time.

 

[brkaus]

Can you provide the source of what you mentioned?
Is it part of the Wall Charger documentation?

I think it is safer to have separate circuit breakers,
but I don't see the point to use Load Sharing to avoid overloading the main breaker.
It could be simpler to use the Tesla scheduler to have a separate starting time.

Source was my electrician.

Said code changes with dedicated breaker. Also said WC2 specifically allowed it and it was removed from the manual for WC3.

 

[brkaus]

to add - in 2027 when I had it installed, he told me how he’d add a junction box & tap off if I wanted to add another.

In 2021 he said the city of austin would no longer pass an inspection if it was done that way.

Now he’d have to put in a sub panel where he would have put the taps before.

Said it wasn’t that much more expensive anyway because the taps are expensive and a small breaker panel is cheap.

 

[Rocky_H]

in 2027 when I had it installed,

Whoa... Do we still have an ozone layer? Are there Tesla robotaxis?

 

[yogi799]

Yep, that is another thing. If you're doing an outlet for EV charging, it must use a GFCI breaker. They are annoyingly expensive and twitchy and have a lot of problems with nuisance tripping.

so.. what is the point, other than being "required". I've also heard the same from a site that discusses electrical setups, annoying as hell and they stop charging when they trip and .... imagine waking up to an empty battery before a busy day ahead on the road. Wouldn't you be livid?

so... i've read that GFCI is only needed when the outlet is near the water, so garage at 3ft high is a place where you will never have water. If the law is stupid then you ignore it (like speed limits for the most part). No?

anyone still believe tripping GFCI is a good idea for a NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 in the garage?

 

[Watts_Up]

I installed a GFCI 120V 20A in my garage for a freezer and the plug was tripping all the time,
so I had to replaced it with a regular Circuit breaker,

In fact, GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible,
such as cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer.

>> i've read that GFCI is only needed when the outlet is near the water,
>> so garage at 3ft high is a place where you will never have water.

GFCI protection is required for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in garages and in grade-level
portions of unfinished or finished accessory buildings used for storage or work areas of a dwelling unit.

GFCI-compliant outlets for garages that are at or below ground level
because there’s a high risk of flooding or other water damage with a lower floor.

So if a garage is accessed from the street by driving up using a driveway,
it can be conceivable that the garage could not be considered at grade-level,
and been at risk of been flooded?

 

[brkaus]

I installed a GFCI 120V 20A in my garage for a freezer and the plug was tripping all the time,
so I had to replaced it with a regular Circuit breaker, same issue for a receptacle used for power tools.

Power tools will trip an arc fault breaker, shouldn't trip a rgfci (of course stuff happens).

Difference between a fridge and a car is the frequency it may be unplugged.

 

[Rocky_H]

so... i've read that GFCI is only needed when the outlet is near the water, so garage at 3ft high is a place where you will never have water. If the law is stupid then you ignore it (like speed limits for the most part). No?

That used to be the case until several years ago. In the 2017 update of National Electric Code, they added a condition that ANY outlet being installed for EV charging MUST use a GFCI breaker, period. So wet location or not isn't relevant.

anyone still believe tripping GFCI is a good idea for a NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 in the garage?

No, it's not really a good idea, but violating electric code isn't a good idea either. So that's why most of the advice on the forum is switching to it being easier and cheaper to just do a hard wired wall connector instead of an outlet.

 

[yogi799]

No, it's not really a good idea, but violating electric code isn't a good idea either. So that's why most of the advice on the forum is switching to it being easier and cheaper to just do a hard wired wall connector instead of an outlet.

Right, sounds like the most logical workaround, and I just picked up another wall charger for 40% off from FB marketplace, I will daisy chain them and let them power share one 60AMP circuit (which too I am told here in Canada is also against the code now because the power sharing on V3 WC is not via wire but rather wi-fi - and god bless tesla for modern solutions!). Just puzzles me to no end why stupid laws continue to be passed. Don't the people who pass these laws also struggle with nuisance tripping: 100000 of useless false-trips for one real save? Really? Can't they connect the dots? Sorry, rhetorical questions / vent. I am ultra-sensitive to moronic laws that don't serve anyone other than an insurance company and their predator lawyers.