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Wanted feedback on MY pricing request For Elon and Franz

MitchJi

Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Jun 1, 2015
3,989
9,173
Marin County, CA
Sandy seems to think my price estimates are realistic.

Well Mitch these are all good thoughts however I have no direct connection to Elon.
Maybe your thoughts on sending him copies is the best approach.

Good luck and let me know if you are successful.

Sandy


Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2021 6:12 PM
Subject: [EXTERNAL]..My suggestion for Elon and Franz at Tesla

Hi Sandy,

I am going to try to bring the following idea to the attention of Elon and Franz. I intend to print it and send copies Hawthorne, Palo Alto and Boca Chica. Before I do that I’d really appreciate it if you see any problems or inaccuracies would you please let me know?

I’m not sure that they will read this, so I’m soliciting suggestions and publicity. If you have any ideas about how to bring this idea to Elon’s attention please let me know. And if you like the idea please feel free to make a video on this topic.

Dear Elon or Franz,

I have a suggestion/request:

I would love to get a new Roadster but 200K is too much to spend. I believe that there are a massive number of men who feeł exactly the same way.

Would you please produce the Roadster for much less than 200k? Scaling production by itself would generate massive cost savings which can work if you lower the prices.

Using Mega Castings
I believe using mega castings requires an annual production of about 100k units which I believe you can easily hit, if you make reducing costs as much as possible a very high priority, right after building the ultimate performance car.
Using front and rear mega castings will reduce the cost of production. If you use the 8 foot mega casting machines would that be long enough to cast the entire car in two pieces? I suggest three models roughly equivalent to the current MS-MX LR and the MS plaid plus a configuration with the SpaceX package (~$200k?). A Plaid++ version or a Founders series)?

Using mega castings and 4680 cells should make it possible to produce the Roadster LR for less than the current M3P model with a similar configuration. Basic Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive version with an actual M3 or MS-MX 4680 structural pack (~75-100 kWh) which should yield a range ~400 miles for ~$57k. i believe that using two M3P Rear Motors would have sufficient power (~560 hp) for the basic model of the Roadster. If you want more power you could relatively inexpensively‑ increase the length of the motors (much simpler than increasing the diameter of the motors).

Plus a plaid version, using carbon wrapped Triple Motors All-Wheel drive with a structural pack (~140-180 kWh) with a range of "up to 620 miles” for ~$90-100k.

Elon said that the purpose of the Roadster is to be a hardcore smackdown to gas powered cars and that it won’t move the needle on Tesla’s mission. IMO the Rimac Nevera has already delivered a technical smackdown. I believe that you can deliver a much stronger smackdown by delivering the next Roadster at a much lower price. You will deliver much more of a hardcore smackdown by selling a Roadster with 560hp for $57k. I realize that sounds like absurdly low price but that’s he same as the current M3P which you are making very good margins on plus there will be large savings due to the use of the mega castings and the 4680 structural packs. Plus an absurdly low sounding price is extremely compelling and should IMO be part of delivering a hardcore smackdown.

That’s less than the C8 Corvette. IMO that’s much more of a hardcore smackdown to gas powered cars than a car that most people can’t afford. You could name it the Model CK (Corvette Killer), or the Model MBS (the Mary Barra Special).

I believe those prices are low enough to easily sell 100k to 200k. If that isn’t enough in your opinion to move the needle on your mission I believe that you could probably figure out a way to produce them for even less. One wild idea, you are planning to produce a $25k “compact car”. Isn’t the Roadster a compact car? $35k-45k for the basic version and $80k for the plaid version would be wild.

Quoted from your blog:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/roadster-30
We are confident that this will not be the last update the Roadster will receive in the many years to come.

For the next Roadster update I vote for Dual carbon wrapped Motors in the rear with torque vectoring.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
 
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HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,069
11,318
Connecticut
Yes, Elon's mission is to deliver a hardcore smackdown to gas powered cars, but since Tesla is a public company, they first have to deliver shareholder value. And as a Tesla shareholder, selling a supercar for $50k just to make it affordable violates this prime directive (ok, ok "fiduciary responsibility"), no matter how many people may want it. Tesla will sell as many $200k/$250k Roadsters as they can make. Why on earth would they sell a cheap model for $50k?


p.s. IMO, I think it's bizarre that you're trying to school Elon and Franz on how to build cars.
 

MitchJi

Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Jun 1, 2015
3,989
9,173
Marin County, CA
Yes, Elon's mission is to deliver a hardcore smackdown to gas powered cars, but since Tesla is a public company, they first have to deliver shareholder value. And as a Tesla shareholder, selling a supercar for $50k just to make it affordable violates this prime directive (ok, ok "fiduciary responsibility"), no matter how many people may want it. Tesla will sell as many $200k/$250k Roadsters as they can make. Why on earth would they sell a cheap model for $50k?
Elon said that they won't sell enough to move the needle on their mission. So they are planning on pretty limited production. You could make the same incorrect argument about the M3P.
p.s. IMO, I think it's bizarre that you're trying to school Elon and Franz on how to build cars.
So do you believe that it's impossible for you to ever make a good suggestion to Elon or Franz about building cars?
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,069
11,318
Connecticut
Elon said that they won't sell enough to move the needle on their mission. So they are planning on pretty limited production. You could make the same incorrect argument about the M3P.

First of all "move the needle" is an entirely abstract concept with no objective measure possible. Second, the argument about maximizing shareholder value is not an incorrect argument, it still holds on all significant decisions Tesla makes. Second, we don't know how many they will produce, so it might start out in limited production, but move to full production when they can keep selling as many as they can possibly make.

So do you believe that it's impossible for you to ever make a good suggestion to Elon or Franz about building cars?

And average joe like you and me? Absolutely. Unless you have a demonstrable and successful career in auto design, engineering, construction, and manufacturing. If you do, please present those credentials.

And your one big idea is "use mega castings"? You don't think they're already either considering that, building that, or dismissed that idea for some engineering or other reason?
 
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qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,776
3,999
VB
Look man if you get him to produce a roadster for 45k I will hop on an airplane and make your dreams come true.

on the other hand, who wants a nerfed roadster? That’s a balls out yolo money ain’t a thing car. Why you trying to make the Tesla Roadster a Ford Mustang?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,825
12,555
Riverside Co. CA
Since the thread title is "wanted feedbacK' which is asking for opinions....

My opinion is that its absolutely ridiculous to basically say "your proposed supercar is too expensive, make it cheaper so more people can buy it". The whole point of supercars is outlandishness and exclusivity.

I told my millennial daughter who is 27 this when she was 18 and we got into an argument about how "some people pirate games because they cant afford them".

My response was " Everyone is not entitled to everything. There is no rule that says that everyone is supposed to have access to everything, and if they cant afford it, they cant afford it. It doesnt make it ok for them to steal it because they cant afford it".

Note that, I dont expect to ever be able to afford this car. Thats fine, its ok that I (and most people ) cant afford it. "Make it cheaper so more can afford it" is silly, for this specific vehicle.

Since you asked for opinions, thats mine. I only posted my opinion on this specifically because the thread is " wanted opinions ".

Note that, I am not making any judgement on whether OP or anyone else can "afford" it. I just am saying that "make supercar cheaper" is somewhat silly.
 
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Stavinski

Member
Jan 31, 2021
124
143
USA
As long as we’re telling Elon how to run his company that seems to be doing just fine without my input (I know, I don’t understand it either, just bear with me) I will take the opportunity to say the tequila is way over priced and has been out of stock for months. Please address this issue.
 
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HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,069
11,318
Connecticut
he can’t speak for women, that would be mansplaining, like, duh.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not, but either way it totally misses the point. Speaking for women (in general terms, as in the OP) is not mansplaining (i.e. if he wrote instead "there are a massive number of PEOPLE...." Talking to women in a condescending way is mansplaining.
 
Sep 16, 2014
69
1
SF, CA
The hardcore smack down is already in progress with S Plaid.

Should it hold, the $200k price point already makes the Roadster the cheapest supercar on the market. The reality is that any further discounting will simply hand more dollars to the flippers who price it according to its true market value.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,612
4,415
Northern California
he can’t speak for women, that would be mansplaining, like, duh.
14541771-A834-4E43-95DB-67F393829BAE.gif
 
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Ogre

Member
Sep 6, 2021
352
976
Oregon
Ok, gonna buck the trend here, and this isn't quite what the OP is about, but I would absolutely love a low end roadster.

Wait... before you string me up.

What I'm talking about is something more akin to the Mazda Miata. I'm not super interested in 0-60 in 1.1 seconds or a top speed of 200MPH. I would love something that does 0-60 in 3-4 seconds and drives like a go-cart around corners.
 

Ogre

Member
Sep 6, 2021
352
976
Oregon
he can’t speak for women, that would be mansplaining, like, duh.
It's not that hard to be gender neutral.

"I believe that there are a massive number of people who feeł exactly the same way."

Is not only gender neutral, it reads better.

If zero women agree with him, it is still true because last I checked... men are people.
 
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HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,069
11,318
Connecticut
who cares? Pointless corrections.

They're not "pointless corrections"... we are living in the third decade of the 21 century were, gasp, women and men should (finally) be treated equally. By the OP saying " there are a massive number of men" shows phenomenal ignorance and blatent sexism for the times we are living in. As they used to say in the 80's "get with the program" -- a term I despised back them, but is more and more useful today.
 
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